All things…Episcopal

Father Ryan Williams fills in as guest host while Claire is away on maternity leave

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church. This podcast was designed with young people in mind and as a space to learn more about the Christian faith with the Episcopal lens. So, in traditionally Episcopalian greeting fashion, the Lord be with you.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Hey, friends, it is good to be with you for another bonus episode of All Things Episcopal. As you might have guessed from the timbre of my voice, I am not Claire. I'm, um, Father ryan Williams from St. Philip's Episcopal Church in Joplin, Missouri, and I am filling in as a guest host while Claire is away. Uh, I help with producer duties kind of in the background for the podcast. And most recently, I joined Claire on an episode of All Things Episcopal where we discuss the topics of grace and salvation from an Episcopal lens. Claire is out today. She's on maternity leave after an eventful summer. In a two week span, Claire gave birth to a beautiful baby boy named Oliver and was ordained a deacon in the Episcopal Church. We're excited about that. As Claire told me recently, talk about operating in God's time and not our own. Lord willing and the people assenting, she will be ordained to the priesthood this winter. We look forward to that. So it's good to be back with you all for this final bonus episode of All Things Episcopal this summer.

Our topic of conversation today is liturgical time in the Episcopal Church

And speaking of operating in God's time and not our own, our topic of conversation for today is liturgical time, or how we tell and keep time a bit differently in the Episcopal Church. You know, calendars and news feeds and day to day obligations often dictate our time in one form or another and form our imaginations and what we think about ourselves as humans and as beings on this planet. But in the Episcopal Church, along with our brothers and sisters in other liturgical traditions, we have a very different and somewhat mysterious sense of time. Today on the podcast, I am joined by Mother Kathryn Mansfield, who is the Associate Rector at Christ Episcopal Church in Springfield, Missouri. Welcome, Mother Catherine.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Hey, thanks Ryan. Father Ryan, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, I'm, um, really appreciative you joined us today.

We start off by asking our guests to share 5 unfun facts about themselves

So, as we do on this podcast, we start off by asking our guests to share with us. 1, 2, 3, 5 unfun facts about yourself.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Okay, 1. I hate raw carrots. Um, do you like raw carrots?

>> Father Ryan Williams: I do, but my 3 year old daughter doesn't. So you guys are. We have that, yeah. You're in good.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: I'm in good company with the 3 year old. My shoe size is a 9. My least favorite color is brown.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Interesting.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: How come?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's the color of poop.

>> Father Ryan Williams: I thought you might say that again.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: With the three year old. Like my three year old daughter would say that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Well, thank you. Um, yeah, you and Eleanor should hang out sometimes.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: We get along well, get us connected well.

You grew up in the Episcopal Church. Tell me a bit about your upbringing

>> Father Ryan Williams: So, um, I know that you are a cradle Episcopalian. You grew up in the Episcopal Church. Um, but tell me a bit of your story and what's kept you in this, as Claire likes to say, this wonderfully weird and holy chaos of the Episcopal Church. This band of contrite misfits with incense, potlucks and oddly specific liturgical colors in fashion.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, that is the Episcopal Church. You know, I was very. I find. I find myself super lucky, feeling very blessed to have grown up in the Episcopal Church. Um, my family has a long history in the Episcopal Church, especially at Grace Church down in Carthage. And what's kept me around is just from. From a young age, I knew there was something special about this place because I felt so at home in youth group and at church and acolyting on Sundays. Church was just somewhere that I loved to be for as long as I can remember. And as I got older, you know, you're exploring things about yourself, you know, your own beliefs, your own values, your own morals, and how you begin to incorporate all those things into your life and for some, into their spiritual life as well. And for me, the Episcopal Church was always just right in line with what I. The values and morals that I hold close to myself. Um, so. And those are important things to navigate as you're getting older and going through high school and college and everything. And so it was so comforting having the Episcopal Church there, sort of affirming everything that I was discovering for myself as well.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Well, maybe were some of those things that you might say, some of those.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Emphases, um, you know, their emphasis on inclusion of all of God's children. Um, you know, it. I went to college and at, uh, umkc and I worked in the restaurant industry for four years. And the restaurant industry is full of so many different kinds of people. Oh, my gosh, you meet so many different kinds of people, different cultures, different backgrounds, and I loved them all to death. They were my second family. And it just made me so happy that whenever I talked about my church, because I still was active in church in college, whenever I talked about it, because, you know, you talk about the things you love, and I love church my whole life, and whenever I would talk about it around my co workers in the restaurant industry, I didn't have to feel shy or embarrassed about telling them about it because I knew that my church would love and welcome all of these people. And that was so comforting for me. So that. That's one that definitely sticks out, you know, the inclusion aspect of it and also the worship style as well. You know, a lot of people these days think that what young people want are like, the praise bands and the electric guitar and the drum and stuff like that. But I resonated a lot with the traditional worship style, the organ, the hymnal. Love the hymnal, the prayer book. You know, I really just fell in love with the traditional style of worship that we have and hung onto that, which was nice.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. I think, you know, it's been surprising to see how sort of Gen Z, and we'll see about Gen Alpha, but research coming out of that. There's this hunger for mystery in some of these deeper, older expressions of faith.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And. And it's. I think it's kind of an interesting phenomenon that we're seeing.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, absolutely. And I. It's interesting you mentioned that too, because at Christchurch, we're starting up a campus ministry. And I've. Now, last Sunday was, uh, that was like, move in weekend for a lot of students at Missouri State. And I was so surprised at how many of them I saw in church on Sunday, students coming. And I actually met with one of another student earlier this week, and he said he was yearning for that more traditional worship style. So I just want to be like, people look like they don't want praise bands and electric guitars and stuff, like, what we're doing is good. We don't need to change what we do to, uh, try and reach these people. Like, what we're doing is enough. They want that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to get to an aspect of that mystery today as we talk about liturgical time.

I first remember feeling a call to the priesthood when I was in sixth grade

But first, I want to hear a bit about your story, not only of sticking around the Episcopal Church, but also how you began to feel a sense of call to the priesthood and what that journey looked like for you as well.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, totally. I first remember here, I remember feeling that call to the priesthood, um, when I was. Gosh, I think I must have been in like, sixth or seventh grade. I was really young and I had. I was acolyting at diocesan convention. Um, Father Steve had asked me and my sister. I think he knew what he was doing when he did that. So we. I had walked into the room where all the priests and deacons were getting vested at Dioston Convention that year, and I just have this vivid memory, thinking to myself, wow, I want to do that one day. And that's just sort of always stuck with me. So, you know, I mentioned that it was really affirming for me going through these life changes through high school and college and still finding myself in tune and in line with the beliefs of the Episcopal Church. So that really fed a lot into my sense of call, because I was looking around at all of my close friends. I was in a sorority, so a lot of my sorority sisters, you know, we had. We had similar values and beliefs just by nature of being in the same sorority and the same group of friends. And I saw them looking around questioning, like, what is the point of going to church if it's just gonna not feed me and nourish me in the way that I want it? So sort of saw this need for younger representation in the church, and I felt like I could give that because, like I said, I love to talk about it. Anyway, it was such a passion of mine. And so my junior senior year of college, I started the discernment process. Um, and again, it was really just a response to this overwhelming urge to show people that church doesn't have to be what you think it is, which is a lot of these negative examples and representations of Christianity. I wanted to be for them a positive representation of God and of the church. So that was really the driving force behind my sense of call at that age. Anyway, um, so which it led me to seminary, and I went to the University of the south in Suwanee, Tennessee. And it's really there that I learned how important it is to mark time in your daily life with things that feed you. Um, so when I got to Centenary, Swanee really, um, places a lot of emphasis on attending chapel services. And it's sort of constructed like a, uh, workday. So we had morning prayer at 8:05. We had noon Eucharist. You know, it's your lunch break. But we had classes too, from. At least the juniors said, we had our. All our core classes after morning prayer and up until noon Eucharist. Um, and we were expected to go to both. So afternoon Eucharist. We had usually our elective classes in the afternoon. And then after the electives you have evening prayer at 5, 10. And when I went to Suwanee, I just wanted to get everything I could. I wanted to attend all the services. I wanted to join as many different groups as I could. I just wanted. Wanted to tap my toe into each little thing that I could just to get the experience. And morning Prayer and evening prayer, morning prayer, especially, because, you know, as you are in seminary longer, you sort of get out of practice of attending. I'm not going to sit here and tell you guys that I attended all three every single day, because I definitely did not. But morning prayer is really what I think helped shaped my life and how I now view my days, uh, in terms of. And stuff like that. So I. I think that's because, you know, you start your day with giving thanks to God and prayer and asking him to, um, inform your decisions as you go about your day and to lead you, um, on the path that God would want you to take. Whether that be the way you encounter with certain people. What just. It informs, I think, every decision you make throughout your day. And it just became a really important practice for me because I noticed that the days I wouldn't go to morning prayer, maybe not attend the Eucharist that day. There was a difference. No, it really helps shift your mindset from, you know, maybe a grouchy morning person to, like, giving thanks to God for, like, being here today. And if you're not. If you are feeling grouchy that morning, you know, we pray psalms, too, that give space for those feelings as well. So it's just a really great way to nourish your relationship with God and to make your days more meaningful by marking time in such a manner.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I mean, especially thinking. I often think about and thankful for the prayer book in, uh, that on those grouchy mornings, myself, I have words that. Uh-huh. Like, I don't have to fake it.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Right.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But there's words there to help kind of retrain my thinking and to even lean into maybe, uh, interrogating why am I feeling this way? What's going on here? How does this fit into the scope of Christ's love for us in the world? And that totally.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: There's space for it all.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to a more, um, diverse, denominationally diverse seminary.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Duke. Right.

>> Father Ryan Williams: You can admit, same space. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And. But we had, you know, denominational houses to kind of keep everybody on their track.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Okay.

Lin: I miss morning and evening prayer in corporate settings

>> Father Ryan Williams: For their. Their ordination track. And so I hung out with the. The Anglican invisible house as well as the Baptist house, because I was Baptist at that time. So I would take part in morning and evening prayer. And that's probably the first place where I kind of fell in love with really. Um, I mean, I was already kind of exploring and quite. I had interesting questions about the prayer. But having that ebb and flow My day, kind of retraining my uh, the rhythms of my day in this corporate setting. I miss it. I don't know about you, but I miss that kind of corporate.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Mhm.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Prayer. I mean, I still take part in it individually in the mornings, but it's.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Different by yourself versus with people.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, it is.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Well, very cool. Yeah. I always loved, since I had, I didn't have the Episcopal education that many of my colleagues have, I always loved to hear about your experiences there.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. And you know, there are so many different resources in our prayer book that people don't know about that can be used. It's like a five minute little liturgy that you say to yourself or with other people. But there are really a lot of resources that our prayer book gives us to take time to mark our day with prayer as we go about the day. There's so many options in there.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: That can be another episode.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, yeah. And maybe look in our back catalog. I believe we've covered something to that effect. But there's, but, but on that note, you know, thinking about time from a more cosmic or theologically robust place as we do in our uh, kind of our worship, our ways of thinking about worship, our ways of thinking about how we live life according to God's time versus maybe the ways we mark time more broadly speaking and maybe a more secular mindset. You know, there's a sense where we can, we can let other markers of time sort of pull us along in our day to days if we're not careful or if we're, or if we're unconsidered. Yeah, it'd be the sense, you know, whether it's our, our, the calendar app in our phone, um, our news feed, whether it's on Insta or um, Twitter or Blue sky or whatever your particular flavor of social media is.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: There are so many things like buying for our attention, so many things that want us to spend our time with that certain thing, you know, and we can choose to like waste time. Not waste, you know, I scroll on TikTok, you know, whatever. We all do. But that. I get your point. You know, there are so many things vying for our attention and it's hard to like, you know, take time in the day to just, you know, sit and be like, what am I doing with the day? You know. Cause it's, it can always be filled with something that doesn't require that sort of reflection or attention to, you know, just how you're doing and how you're going about the day.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, exactly.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Like the calendar and, like, the Facebook feeds and stuff like that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Or like the changing of the seasons now where, you know, for many students. School starting back up.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And even for parents, school starting back up. My wife this morning sent a text to some of our friend group saying, patting our. Let's pat ourselves on the back. Cause we survived summer with our kids at home, and now they're back to school. But, like, there are those things baked into our. The ebb and flow of our seasons and of our years that mark time in a very real way. And yet, we might say, kind of looking from a theological or an Episcopal lens, that there's, um, deeper sense to how we might order our days or even the scope of history.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Which we can. It's a big animal to try to tackle one bite at a time. Well, we can discuss where we want to start and see where we get. You know, historically speaking, I mean, ancient folks looked at history and time in, uh, many cultures. It was a circular pattern where they saw these, uh, seasonal, uh, rhythms that came back around each and every year. You know, in our modern era, uh, we began kind of thinking more linear. Linearly linear.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Oh, no, not too good. Do we need to Google it Linearly?

>> Father Ryan Williams: There we go. Yeah. Viewing time as a line, that was either, you know, there's the sense of progress, this myth of progress with the line is going in one direction and it's going ever upward, and things are getting better and better and better.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And then there's others that tell the story where the lines going down. It's getting worse and worse and worse all the time.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: You know, that makes me appreciate the sort of circular motion that we get with the seasons and even with our church calendar.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yes, yes. Right. We. We come back to Advent every year.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And then we kind of relive the story.

As Christians, time is important to us because, you know, God

Um, yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: And because, you know, as Christians, I guess this would be a nice time to bring this up. As Christians, we. Time is important to us because, you know, we're always searching for ways to see God in our lives and to strengthen that relationship with God and to nourish it. And setting aside the way we do that is by taking time in our lives and in our days to get closer to God, to see him at work in our lives and around us. And how we do that is by prayer. You know, and prayer requires time. It requires you to take a few minutes out of your day to think about where you saw God and where he is in your life. So, yeah, we can. You know, the secular world tells us to Mark time by, you know, what we see on our insta feeds and by the calendars, which we all do. You know, I'm not saying don't do that, but there are things that matter more than just marking your day by these outwardly. Not outwardly, but by these secular things.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. I always forget who it is, so I can never attribute it to the right person. But I remember an ancient Christian of some sort. Yeah, right. And they kept multiplying all the time, um, as if the church was growing. But this ancient Christian in particular, who I'm forgetting right now, said of the spiritual life that it's a swim upstream and it's a swim for your life.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: That's good.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. And that was in, like. That was like in the first century. And so just think about how strong the currents are today, how easy it is to just sort of go with our day to day flow and to just, um, allow the currents of, um, Whether it's how we mark our time or those things that become valuable sort of to the broader stream of the world we're living in, how those can kind of pull us in a direction that maybe. And pull our attention, our vision away from those things that are eternal, uh, fruitful and life giving.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. The world is full of them, too. It's so easy to get caught up and not, you know, marking your time intentionally, I guess. It's a good word. Yeah. And it is an uphill battle because, like I said, it's not what the world is telling you to do.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. There's the, the rat race or the scramble or all these ways we try to measure up or be enough or seem approved or have, uh, the Grammable story. And yet, you know, who is that wrote Liturgical Time, the book?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Neil Alexander. I'm gonna tell, um, him to watch this podcast because I'm.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Oh, no.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Giving him a rec. Oh, should I not?

>> Father Ryan Williams: I don't know. I'm just kidding.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Oh, no, you're right.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But I believe in his book, though. Uh, as you were talking about the liturgical calendar, how that kind of retrains our sense of who we are in the story and how we reenact that story. Uh, he has this quote he says at the heart of the Church's Year of Grace, there is a great tradition of timeless narratives that give us glimpses into God's activity in the past and offer a vision for the future that shapes the present moment. And that came to mind when you were talking about how, like, retraining our vision, marking our days in this other way of telling Time.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Helps, um, helps us sort of remember and relive and reincarnate the past, but also look ahead and hope for this future. Um, that. That redefines the present for us.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. Which is, again, sort of what we do. Natural, not naturally, but what we do year after year with the church calendar. You know, we are in the green season right now, the long season of Pentecost. And then, of course, we start our new year in Advent. Um, but you saying that. I think we talked about this before, but re. Encountering those seasons, experiencing those seasons year after year allows us to approach them differently or take a new perspective or just, you know, think about things we learned from the previous year. It just. It's constantly change. It's ever evolving. Um, the way we encounter these.

>> Father Ryan Williams: These seasons to kind of think back to the circles or the line. It's kind of both. And in the way you're describing it, where we return to these seasons each and every year. Each and every year. But we might be. Even though we're saying the same prayers or reading the same Scriptures, for the most part, we're new people. Our hopes have changed in the past year. Our longings have changed. Our heartaches, maybe, or our struggles. Um, but. So we're kind of. We're moving down the line, but we're also in a circle, coming back.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, we're doing it year after year.

>> Father Ryan Williams: So, um.

Pop quiz: Name the liturgical seasons in order

Okay, pop quiz.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Oh, no.

>> Father Ryan Williams: So we. So we have a different new year than, like, broadly speaking, it's, uh, not January 1st for us.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: What is it? November 29th?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, give or take.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Give or take. Or 30th or 31st.

>> Father Ryan Williams: So I was going to. So would you be willing to name the liturgical seasons in order?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, I can do that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: I bet.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: I bet I can. Do you have. Do you know if I'm going to be wrong or not? Do you have, like, a list in front of you?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Probably, Maybe.

Advent is the season when we're waiting for the birth of Jesus

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Okay, we start with Adventure and Advent. I'll give just, like, a little synopsis, too, of what each season is, if that's helpful. Advent is the. It's our new year, as you mentioned, and it's the season when we're waiting. Advent means. What does that mean? To long for? Or like a awaiting. I shouldn't have said Advent means because I don't actually know the definition, but.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, you're there, more or less. Right.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. An Advent, A, uh, longing, or a, uh, uh, awaiting. Anyway, we're waiting for the birth of Christ. And Advent is. You're gonna look it up now just.

>> Father Ryan Williams: To Help you out.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: What is it?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, it's. It's an arrival.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: An arrival.

>> Father Ryan Williams: We're waiting for that.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, we're waiting for the arrival of the birth of Jesus. And so admin is that time of the year when we can look at our lives and reflect on where God is or where God is not in our lives. Um, which again, just plays into that. What plays into time? Well, another thing I'll mention too. Advent comes at a time in the year when the world is naturally, like, quieting. It's getting darker, the leaves are falling. It's just like a darker time in our lives. Sort of like when we resonate, we think of. We think of darkness, we think of where God is in. You know, it's the light of Christ. So darkness is the absence of that light. And so I think it's so fitting that Advent occurs in a season in our earthly world, earthly realm, where. Or in Missouri at least. It occurs during a time of the year for us when we are experiencing that darkness more so than other parts of the year.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Um, and as we're re experiencing maybe the story itself, we're kind of even entering into like, maybe Israel's place of longing for Messiah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, exactly.

>> Father Ryan Williams: In the ancient sense of like this, this, this hope for this light to come into the world, this darkness.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

There's Advent, which is four weeks long. And then Lent is a more concentrated focus

Um, yeah, so there's Advent, which is four weeks long. I'll even give you how long it is. Whoa.

>> Father Ryan Williams: You're gonna do better than I would. Good work.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Christmas, you know, the arrived. The birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. What's the official name? The Nativity of our Lord? Something like that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, like, sure.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Christmas, 12 day long season.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Uh, wait, I thought it was just one day.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Oh, no, good question. Well, it wasn't a question, but thank you for your thought of Christmas only being one day is 12 days. Um, let's see. Do I know why it is 12 days? Yes, I do. Because it was 12 days, um, after the birth of Jesus and until the magi reached where he was and the. In the manger.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Like in the sort of tradition of the story. Maybe not, you know, well, literally, but of the story. Yeah, yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Um, yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Which helps though, because this is kind of a. I don't want to say like a mythical retelling, but it is sort of this cosmic mysterious retelling because in a real way, which we'll get to maybe with Eucharist, we're kind of. We're not just retelling the story, but in a sense, this mysterious sense, we're re. Entering it.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: We're inserting ourselves into the story. Yeah. And we, yeah, we'll. We'll get more into that. Um, yeah. So then when the, when the magi reach our Lord and Savior, the baby Jesus, that. Is that when epiphany starts? Yes. No, that. What is that feast? It's. It's a feast, isn't it? What is it? Is it the feast of the epiphany? Is that it?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, Feast of the Magi.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: And that's when they reach the. That's when they reach Jesus.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Uh-huh.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Right. Yeah, it is. Okay, then epiphany starts. The season of epiphany. And that goes until Lent. And the date of Lent changes every year.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Based on. Yeah, but say more about epiphany. What's going on there?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Epiphany? Yeah, epiphany is. Well, you know, the word epiphany means some sort of realization. You're having some sort of experience or. Realization is the best word, I think, for that of who Jesus is. You know, it's. He's. It's becoming clear that Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah. And so throughout the season of epiphany, it's Jesus doing all these miracles and you know, walking, making his way towards Jerusalem. But, um, performing all these, all these miracles, all these healing narratives. That's all happening in this season of epiphany.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. In the sense of like, what does it look like that this light is coming to the world and illuminating all these things. Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Mhm. Yeah. So then we get to Lent and.

>> Father Ryan Williams: That'S when I give up chocolate.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Chocolate. That's a good one.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Or I don't know, whatever else you might give up each year.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: You know, you can also add something to your Lenten practice. That's something that I like to do. How can I tie that into time? You know, Lent is the time when we are thinking about how we can grow in our relate. I feel like that is what we're doing all the time is growing how.

>> Father Ryan Williams: We can grow in our relationship. But it is a more maybe concentrated focus. Time of like introspection.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Ah huh. Yeah. And lenses that. And um, you can add something to rather than, you know, the idea is you get rid of something, something that's getting in the way of your relationship with God. But you could also add something to enhance, to improve your relationship with God too. It just, it doesn't just have to be the removal, but you can add like maybe if you're not consistent with morning or evening Prayer, Adding that practice into your life or anything like that. Yeah.

Lent and then Easter, then Pentecost

So lent, the great 40 days, excluding Sundays. Should we talk about that?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Sure, if. Are you ready to, uh.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Well, should I.

>> Father Ryan Williams: No, go ahead.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Well, should I finish the years first? Lent, Easter, Ascension Day. Oh, wait, did you say seasons? Not major feast.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Um, Easter and then Pentecost.

>> Father Ryan Williams: So, yeah, so we have. Yeah. Lent and then Easter. Yeah. Easter is kind of a big deal.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Easter is a big deal. Easter tide, the great season of Easter, 50 days. You know, we're really excited that Jesus has come back to us, and he's risen from the dead and gave us salvation and the forgiveness of all our sins, and we all have a new life because of it.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Amen.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Right, right. But the season, of course, like you said, the liturgical year's not over when it comes to Easter, because the story's not over.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. Yeah. Did I say that?

>> Father Ryan Williams: No, you didn't say that. I'm just saying, like. Yeah. Why. But why isn't it over? Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: What's still happening church here?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Uh, what is. I mean, Jesus is still happening. Jesus still happens, regardless of whether Are we.

>> Father Ryan Williams: There was a thing called the Ascension.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, okay. That's what you were trying to get. I was like, jesus is still happening. Yeah. Ascension Day happens, and then. Okay, yeah. Jesus goes back up and he sin. That's not what happens there. Jesus goes back up and he leaves us to go be with His Blessed Father. And then Pentecost. Was there something more that I needed to say?

>> Father Ryan Williams: No, that's great.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Pentecost. Jesus sends down the Holy Spirit to be with all of us, and we are never alone because of that gift. And then we start over again. Right.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, we do. But what? But, um, you know, so we're back kind of to where that we're at right now.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Season of ordinance. Yeah. Ordinary time. Or the season after Pentecost, which, you know, I think, you know, a lot of times that's when summer arrives and.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, that's.

>> Father Ryan Williams: People go on vacation and check out a little bit from church. But the great irony is that's the moment when we're, like, supposed to be hitting the ground running.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Right.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Because we're.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: That's so true.

>> Father Ryan Williams: We're taking the baton from Jesus thanks to the Holy Spirit.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And the church is doing its thing.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. You know, I preached a sermon about that exact thing, how the season of Pentecost is the perfect time for us to sort of take what we've learned from the whole year and really use that time to Reflect on what we've learned and incorporate that into our lives. Um, and because it is the time when. When other things occupy our time. Um, rather than church, you know, like the lake or.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yes, especially in southwest Missouri.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, exactly.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Culture looms large here, you know, but.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Get on the boat and, like, take five minutes to think of, oh, God is the reason I am in this beautiful place right now. You know, God. God is in charge of time, not us. God. God has all of our time. You know, we can think, we have some sort of grasp on it, but it's just all. It's all human made, you know, it's. Yeah, yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: That is something that. I think when we get caught up in that. That rat race, we forget just our temporality and also our creatureliness.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: That we.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: What do they say on Ash Wednesday? What are the words?

We are temporal beings. Yeah. Like, you are dust until you shall return

>> Father Ryan Williams: Like, you are dust until you shall return.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. We are temporal being.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Yeah. And we. But we can. We can try to run away from that.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Uh-huh.

>> Father Ryan Williams: You know, especially in all the ways that we try to, um, you know, make things like youth or wealth or success idols. And we're always chasing after that, you know, Like, I don't know if you saw, like, during the pandemic, the. The amount of, like, um, plastic surgery skyrocketed because all these people were seeing themselves on zoom all the time, and.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: They'Re like, I didn't know that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Oh, I should get that filler done. I should get.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Stop.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But that's the thing. Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: You know, and they're trying to control time, but we can't.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Just let God have it, you know, like, let God control it. Which is so hard because like we said earlier, the world is, like, screaming at us to do something completely different than that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's hard, man. It's hard.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Life out there. It is. Oh, yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Time.

>> Father Ryan Williams: So, yeah.

Ryan: What sets us apart when it comes to the Eucharist

So then. Well, you say more. Tell me more about how we let God control time. If he's the author of time and he is the one in control. Whatever. What does that mean?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: What does that mean?

>> Father Ryan Williams: We don't have to get into conversation about free will today. We're not there yet.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Not free will, huh.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But maybe in our worship. Like, what is. What maybe sets us apart? Our sense of time when it comes to the Eucharist on Sunday.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Good question.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Is there something happening there?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. Have you ever heard of the word anamnesis?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Uh, tell me more.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Anamnesis is the calling of salvation, salvific events and bringing them to the present time, recalling them in Present time, but also thinking is that thinking ahead to the future and uh, waiting for God to fulfill God's promises of, you know, his second coming and all that jazz. Um, how do you spell Ananisa's Ryan?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Oh boy. No, um, A, N, A, M, um, N, E, S, I, S. Yeah. Did I get it right?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, that was it. Thank you. That was it.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. So. Yeah, so go ahead.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Well, I was going to say. Yeah, that's anamnesis and calling. The calling of past. Do you have a better definition than what I'm saying? The calling of past salvation history events and remembering them in the Eucharist. That's sort of what that means.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, no, I think you've hit it. I mean, it's kind of like more broadly speaking, we've talked about the. How we sort of. We're not just simply remembering these events in the liturgical year, but we're kind of.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Re experiencing them. And it's happens in like a very potent way we find in the Eucharist.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Mhm. Yeah. And in the Eucharistic prayers. You hear that sort of language. We have four of them, four Eucharistic prayers. And in each prayer there's a section that is calling to. Or how do I phrase this? That is remembering those past events and calling us to remember them in that moment. Yeah. And so in, in communion, we're asking Jesus to like, while we're remembering all those past events that, uh, Jesus did for us, recalling him, we're remembering them and we're calling him back to, to come back into our lives. Well, that wasn't the right phrase, but.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But, yeah, but you know, you're getting at it. I mean, it's a mystery, for one thing.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's hard to explain.

>> Father Ryan Williams: That's a. Yeah, it's a. You know, I always lean on that whenever it's hard to. Like we've been talking about Trinity on Sunday mornings and adult ed Right. Lit now. And I have to just always say, you know, it's a mystery. You know, my language is going to be wrong. I'm going to slip into. I might even slip it in some heresies accidentally with a, with a preposition or two.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: My go to is always, how do you explain the unexplainable?

>> Father Ryan Williams: I, uh, don't know how to do that.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: You can try. We can try and explain it. And that's sort of, that's what we're doing on Sundays, I think, is we're trying to recall these past events and also lean into what it means for us. In that moment which is receiving the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ and also thinking about how that impacts our future, which is, you know, waiting for Jesus's second coming.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's not just this memorial, but in a sense we're exiting temporal realities. The Chronos time, you might say.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Going into this grace filled time.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Mhm.

>> Father Ryan Williams: You know, Kairos, if we want to talk about that, if we want to bring in some Greek words, but that we're not just remembering this event that happened 2000 years ago, but we're somehow like embodying it and experiencing it firsthand in this holy mystery.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Grace comes to us.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, totally. And that also sort of explains why we do all of the extra stuff like the candles or the vestments that we wear or the bells that we r. People wonder why we're so. Why we do those things. And it's because what we're doing in that moment on Sunday mornings, especially during the communion portion, the liturgy of the table portion of it, we're like recalling and bringing to memory and to write then and there, these really important events in our lives. And we want to emphasize the importance of that, I think anyways, why we do this. But we want to just let people know how important this is by including all of those extra things. Because we are, we're making this like a little slice of heaven right there in front of us.

>> Father Ryan Williams: So it's not just like a Civil War reenactment or historical reenactment.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: I hope not. So we've been doing it wrong. Awkward. No.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But you know, I, you know, from a outside perspective, I wonder if people, I mean, I didn't grow up, I'm not a cradle.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, totally.

What we're doing there is calling to the present all salvific events

>> Father Ryan Williams: I grew up in the Baptist tradition.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. People are, uh, do think that it's just a remembering a memorial dinner, a remembrance meal or something like that, but no. Yeah. What we're, what we're doing there is calling to. I feel like I'm not nailing, explaining this very well, but we're just calling to the present all these salvific events in history, you know, the resurrection, the crucifixion, all these things we are remembering then and there and celebrating it and calling Jesus to come down and be with us through the bread and the wine and. Yeah. I don't know.

The Easter Vigil is one of my favorite services in the Episcopal Church

>> Father Ryan Williams: Two thoughts strike me there thinking about that as you explain that. The one is kind of back to the beginning of our conversation when you were talking about, um, the daily office and keeping these hours of prayer, um, each and every day. And how we might show up, you know, joyful, unhappy and chipper some mornings or grumpy and a little sleep deprived and crabby. And yet the liturgy is there to kind of guide us and pull us through and we show up each and every day, maybe different. Mhm. Ourselves. But. But that's still holding us constant.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And in a very real way, there's that rhythm in the liturgical calendar and every Sunday or whenever you take Holy Communion that, that's keeping us, uh, not only are we remembering the story we're a part of that we've been pulled up into, but we are getting re getting pulled back in.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Every time.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. It's a story.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And we're remembering this, this grace that's been given to us and all that. That all that's been given to us that we're not. Not even always ready to receive.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And we certainly don't deserve.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Totally.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Um, that was the first thought I had. And then, boy, oh boy. What was the second thought? Oh, yes. Um, so in our liturgical calendar, um, there's one service, uh, in particular the night before, uh, we celebrate the Resurrection. We have the great Easter Vigil.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Vigil. Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And you know, I think sometimes, I don't know about you, but it's one of my favorite services.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It is like the service. Well, yeah, it should be.

>> Father Ryan Williams: I would agree. I haven't agreed, but you know how many times I'll hear people say, say like, okay, are we going to read every scripture passage this year? And. But uh, you know, I think if we come, you know, so, so I guess in a nutshell, that's a service where we recount God's activity in history time and again. Showing up for, uh, God's people and for all of creation, bringing about this restoration, this long awaited hope.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: That culminates in the Resurrection. And you know, if we come into that with this kind of just solely memorialist notion, then yeah, I guess I could see it being a slog because it's like, okay, we're gonna read through these eight or so passages and sing these songs, read these hymns, but it's.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Like we all get to partake in it.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But yeah, if we see it from that perspective where we're participating in these stories, we're kind of time traveling in a sense, going back into these moments and re. Or. Yeah. Participating in these moments, whether it's the Exodus or the creation or the, or you know, the prophetic witness throughout history. Then it becomes this very mystical, big, beautiful, you know, the candles and the darkness and all this stuff comes together to make this really moving portrait, I think.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah, it is moving, and it's like a completely different. Like, you just inserted yourself into this completely different thing. Like, where else are you going to get something like that? Where else are you going to experience, you know, placing yourself in the events of salvation history? Nowhere, in my opinion. I mean, it's probably out there, but the place you'll get it best is at the Easter vigil in the Episcopal Church, so.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. So show up for that vigil.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: This year, when it comes around, it's. It's the. You're missing out if you're not taking part in that service.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Does St. Philips do a vigil?

>> Father Ryan Williams: We do, yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: What time is it?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Uh, that's a weird at dusk kind of sunset. Ish.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Seven or eight, probably.

>> Father Ryan Williams: I think last year it was like seven, maybe. I can't remember. Putting me on the spot here.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Sorry.

>> Father Ryan Williams: But it's.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Well, it's going back to time, but it is. That plays a role.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah, but it is that. But it's that movement from dark to light. You know, everything starts hushed and dark and mysterious, and then the world is quiet.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Jesus is gone still at this point.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. And I don't know how you all do it, but, you know, we, you know, speaking back to the details around the altar, you know, for us, everything's stripped, everything's bare, everything's black. And then at that moment, when we switch to the resurrection, to the alleluias. Yeah. Then the lights come on and we flood in with the flowers, and we change out the, uh, colors, and we light all the candles and the tone. There's a tenor change there, and it's so celebratory.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: You're, like, marking that difference in time because time has changed.

>> Father Ryan Williams: History has changed in that moment.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And it's. Again, we do all those extra things to emphasize that and to let you know, like, time has been made different because of Jesus.

>> Father Ryan Williams: And I probably. I think I referenced this last time I was on the podcast, and I probably referenced them way too much. But it is that sense. That was it Bultmann who said, you know, in that moment of resurrection, like, the end of history occurred. And now we are catching up to that. So, um, there's this very different sense of time where, like, the end of the world's happened and everything's good. Grace and restoration and resurrection is the end of the story, not downward spirals or myths of progress.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: We're living new life, new time.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Exactly. And now and we're still.

Rowan Williams: Living as if Jesus will show up tomorrow is scary

We're trying to catch up with that reality all the time still. Yet.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Uh, yeah. Until probably. When will that happen?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Only God knows.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's crazy to think how back when Paul was writing letters, Paul was convinced that Jesus's second coming was gonna happen.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Like, next week, imminently. Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's crazy to think about, but we should live that way. Talking about marking time with prayer and, like, getting closer to God, you know, I love the idea of, like, living as if Jesus will show up tomorrow. That'll keep you responsible. That'll keep you accountable with your prayers and taking time to set aside for God each day. If we lived believing that. But, like, who knows? You know? Maybe we should. Because really, who knows? That's scary.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Well, that was. I mean, I think our gospel from a couple weeks ago was very much to that point. Be ready. Stay m. Alert.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah. Be sober. Stay. Stay alert. Stay awake.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Uh, the Master will be happy when he finds us waiting for him. Something like that.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for spending some time talking us through, uh, liturgical time and the calendar and all the ways we mark time differently.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's fun. It's fun making meaningful time, the moments in life, making them mean something, using those moments to grow in your relationship with God. Because it doesn't have to happen only on Sundays at church.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah. Or all at once. It can be a slow but steady journey, forward and inward, always inward and upward, as maybe Athanasius said. I don't know. Like I said, I'm bad at attribution, but. Yeah. I mean, it's, uh. As Rowan Williams did say, though I'm getting this one right.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Rowan Williams.

>> Father Ryan Williams: The church's year is not just a memory of what once happened, but a training in how to live.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yes. That's such a good thing.

>> Father Ryan Williams: I think that's. Yeah. Where we find ourselves as we, uh, enter back into the story year after year and day after day.

Any closing thoughts on carrots or anything else? Any wise words to leave with us today

Well, any closing thoughts, Any changes in your thoughts about carrots in the last 45 minutes?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Yeah.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Or anything else? Any wise words to leave with us today?

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Um, carrots can be made better if you cook them and put some butter and salt and pepper on them. I will eat them that way, but that's why I. Raw carrots or a little.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Little maple syrup and some cayenne. You know, you never. You know.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Really?

>> Father Ryan Williams: Yeah.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: On raw carrots.

>> Father Ryan Williams: No, no. Cook them.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: It's like.

>> Father Ryan Williams: I mean, I'll dip them in some hummus or some guacamole, but. Yeah. Yeah. Or just eat them straight but, um, final thoughts.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Go in peace to love and serve the Lord.

>> Father Ryan Williams: Thanks be to God. Amen.

>> Mother Kathryn Mansfield: Hey friends, thanks for listening. Please like and subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about all things Episcopal on the d of West Missouri's communication pages, please visit d I o westmo.org backslash podcasts backslash and in the Diocese of Kansas, please visit edokformation.WordPress.com All Things Episcopal Podcast All Things Episcopal Podcast is a production of of the Diocese of West Missouri and the Diocese of Kansas in association with Resnet Media.