All things…Episcopal

All Things Episcopal Podcast focuses on anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church

>> Claire: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church. This podcast was designed with young people in mind and as a space to learn more about the Christian faith with the Episcopal lens. So, in traditionally Episcopalian greeting fashion, the.

>> Suzanne Avery: Lord be with you.

>> Clare: Hey, friends. We are taking All Things Episcopal Podcast out into the wild today. I am currently in Elmdale, Kansas, what seems to be in the middle of nowhere. Um, I think it's the Flint Hills, am I right? Yeah, I'm right. Okay. Um, I'm geographically impaired, folks. Um, so thanks be to God for friends that join us along the way and help direct us. Um, for those that don't have that skill or gift of navigation. You get my point.

Episcopal Mega Camp is a week long summer camp for all grade levels

Um, so we are recording today's episode from Episcopal Mega Camp, which is a week long camp for, um, completed third graders all the way through completed 12th grade, all grade levels are together for one week of faith, fun, fellowship and just the beauty of connection. And this year both the Diocese of Kansas in West Missouri are partnering on camp and we have staff that are serving at uh, at UH camp this year that have both been peer ministers at, ah, campus ministries, but have also been campers themselves. So we wanted to talk to them about how camp life has then influenced their interest in campus ministry. So this is an episode completely full of all things young people, all things Episcopal and all things. We'll see what happens. So I am joined today by three wonderful, um, college students or recent college grads.

>> Josh McCall: Yay.

>> Clare: Congratulations. Um, so I'm going to let them introduce themselves. Uh, Josh, let's start with you.

>> Josh McCall: Hi, I'm Josh McCall. I am an incoming second year at Wichita State and I am currently the tier minister for the Wichita area. And right now I'm staffing elementary.

>> Suzanne Avery: I'm Suzanne Avery and I was a peer minister at K State. I just graduated with a degree in architectural engineering and I was a peer minister all 4 years at K State.

>> Brandon Kermer: Yeah, and I'm Brandon Kermer. I also just graduated from K State. I was a peer minister at K State, got my master's in architecture. Um, and I kind of have a unique perspective of having the Diocese of Kansas being a peer minister and then also going to church on the West Missouri side.

>> Clare: Fantastic. And for our listeners, can we go back around in the same order and you all tell us which parish you grew up in and if you know the diocese that you grew up in?

>> Josh McCall: I grew up in St. Thomas the Apostle in Overland park, and that's in the Diocese of Kansas.

>> Suzanne Avery: And I grew up in Wichita, uh, at Good shepherd, and that's the Diocese of Kansas.

>> Brandon Kermer: And I grew up, uh, at St. Andrews in Kansas City, Missouri, and that's the Diocese of West Missouri.

>> Clare: Fantastic. And for our listeners, because I can't make up my mind about things, I. I am canonically resident in the Diocese of Kansas, so that my sending parish is the same one as Josh's. But I have served for the last three and a half years, up until yesterday, June 1st, at Grace and Holy Trinity Episcopal Cathedral as the children, youth and college minister in the Diocese of Kansas. So I like to float between both worlds. I like to eat my cake and eat it, too, or have my cake and eat it, too. There we go.

How did you end up in this wonderfully weird, holy, chaotic community

Um, so I want to ask each of you a standard question that we've been asking almost all of our guests. How did you end up in this wonderfully weird, holy, chaotic community known as the Episcopal Church? A band of contrite misfits with some specific liturgical colors, different practices of piety, like genuflecting, kneeling, standing. You know, all the things we'd love to hear about your interests outside of church and what makes you come alive. So, yeah, first, let's start with how did you find yourself in the Episcopal Church?

>> Josh McCall: Uh, I had the pleasure of being born into the Episcopal Church, so I don't have much of a choice. But I remember when it was time for my confirmation, because I went through confirmation at St. Thomas, and my parents said, like, Josh, we know you don't like coming to church on Sundays. It's early, so you don't have to go through this. Confirmation is your time to say, I do like the gospel church, or it's not for me. And I remember I said, I'll take the classes, and we'll see what happens. And I was taking the classes, and I was learning more about the history of my church itself and then the history of the Episcopal Church. I'm like, this just feels right. I can't imagine myself anywhere else. I feel I need to do this. And that's how I'm here.

>> Suzanne Avery: I was the same as Josh. I grew up in the Episcopal Church. My parents went to Good shepherd, and my grandparents also went there. So, um, yeah, it's just in the family.

>> Brandon Kermer: And I know this is going to be a surprise, but I was also born in the Episcopal Church. Um, but the question I get a lot is, like, Brandon, you live in Kansas. Why do you go on the Missouri side? But St. Andrews has been in the family for several generations. My parents were married there My grandparents were married there. Even my great grandparents were married there. So it's a long standing history, but it makes sense if I explain it.

>> Clare: This is so exciting for me to hear because it is very rare that I am amongst the majority of what most people call cradle Episcopalians. Like, where you've grown up in the church. Most people that I interact with, they have found the Episcopal Church when they're in their college years or just after. Um, so this is a real treat for me. Um, some people will claim for me that I am cradle Episcopalian, but also not at the same time, because I found the church when I was nine so debatable. You know, we'll take votes later on.

What interests you outside of church stuff? What brings you joy

Um, so what also brings you joy, brings you life? Um, yeah. What interests you outside of church stuff?

>> Josh McCall: Uh, somehow this is always gonna tie its way back to the church.

>> Clare: We'll allow it.

>> Josh McCall: I find great joy in music. I go to school for music. I want to be a choir teacher when I grow one day. That's the end goal. And I found that through drumroll police. The Episcopal Church, uh, children's choir growing up. And I'm like, oh, this is so fun. I wanted. I quit baseball because I'm like, I want to sing more. I did musical theater growing up and said, I want to sing more. And I did it and I love it. And so, yeah, awesome.

>> Brandon Kermer: Yeah. Um, I also have a strong passion for music. Um, played a tenor saxophone in elementary school, middle school, high school, even in college a little bit. But besides that, I mean, love soccer, love everything. K State sports.

>> Suzanne Avery: Yeah. Um, I love sports and watching sports, playing sports, all those things. Um, I like organizing and cleaning, doing puzzles.

>> Brandon Kermer: Did you just get a new Dyson vacuum?

>> Suzanne Avery: I did, yeah.

>> Clare: Uh, one of those smart roombas that, like.

>> Suzanne Avery: Oh, yeah.

>> Clare: Sucks all of the, like, nastiness from the filter up into a tower.

>> Suzanne Avery: And it does it all for you.

>> Clare: Yes. It's bringing me so much joy. So much joy.

Vince shares an unfun fact about himself: I love shoes

And because perfection is overrated and boring, if you would each share a glorious unfun fact about yourself, the weirder the better. All are welcome here.

>> Josh McCall: I don't know if this is an unfun fact. My campers are pattern roof. I have a weird obsession with the Peanuts. Specifically, Snoopy. The Charles Schulz characters of, uh, my whole cabin. I have Snoopy pictures and posters placed all over the wall. All of my campers are drawn on my poster as Woodstock. And I draw my Snoopy love, love the Peanuts. The whole shtick. Charlie Brown.

>> Clare: Oh, that's awesome.

>> Brandon Kermer: Um, when I was at K State. Like, I talk about how, like, that was five years ago. No, I was like, yeah, two weeks ago. Um, the architecture building is right across campus, or, like, right across from the K State Union, and there's a coffee shop in the K State Union. Um, and of course, being an architecture major, you drink lots of caffeine. Um, but even got to the point where every time I'd walk into the coffee shop, there'd be times where they'd already be making my order. They had my order memorized down to a T. It just a matter of, like, what size I wanted that day, so.

>> Clare: Love it.

>> Suzanne Avery: My unfun fact about me is that I am currently couch shopping for a sectional.

>> Clare: Is it bringing you joy, though?

>> Suzanne Avery: It is, yes. I'm very excited. I have one that I really like right now, but I'm waiting to make sure it's the right one.

>> Clare: Fair. Fair. You don't want to have fire's remorse.

>> Suzanne Avery: Yes, exactly.

>> Clare: That is completely fair. Um, I don't know if I've actually answered this question on the podcast myself. I love shoes. I love shoes. Contrary to how I dress most days, which is, like, with leggings and tennis shoes and a T shirt, but I love shoes. Yeah. Well, thanks, Vince. I actually find you very, very interesting, and it was not boring.

How did you first get involved with Episcopal summer camp

Okay, so let's kick this episode off. How did you first get involved with Episcopal summer camp? Was it something you chose, or did someone nudge you into it? You know, was it a yes and.

>> Josh McCall: Uh, kind of a mix of all three, I guess. I grew up, growing up in the Episcopal Church. I had a lot of friends my age. Uh, specifically, one of my best friends growing up was Ashadima, who was the priest kid. So every time he'd go do something, that's, um, how I got involved in diocese. Total was camp. And doing this was, um. All of my church friends had gone to camp, and they said, josh, Josh. They're all a year older than me. I didn't have any friends my age. Um, so they're like, joe, you gotta come to camp. You gotta come to camp. I'm like, yeah, but I won't be able to hang out with you guys. I gotta be with my own camp. And they're like, trust us, you're gonna love camp. So I go, what's the word I'm thinking of? Reluctantly. There we go. Asked, um, my parents, and I said, I think I want to go try camp. And I said, you sure? It's a week long. It's a long time. And they said, yeah, why not we do it? And, uh, I came here. I loved it. And this is. I think this is my 10th year at camp. I think I did the math. Yeah.

>> Clare: Wow. So how many more years are you allowed to serve then?

>> Josh McCall: I think I'm allowed to serve until I'm old and gray. It's my 10th year coming to camp. First year as a counselor. Um, but I went to nine years as a camper.

>> Clare: Fantastic. A loyal following. Loyal following. Okay.

This is Suzanne's second year on staff at Camp Wood in Missouri

So, Suzanne, Brandon, whomever wants to go first and respond to that, how did you find yourself at camp? Did someone encourage you to come? Or did you just willingly come to this crazy, chaotic place? That's wonderful.

>> Suzanne Avery: So I have two brothers, and they both went to camp for multiple years before I did, and they loved it so much that they tried for a couple years to get me to come, but it took me a little while to finally actually do it. So they really encouraged me.

>> Brandon Kermer: My story's not as glamorous. Um, I knew about the Episcopal summer camp in West Missouri when I was younger, but I never actually got involved with it. But this is my second year being on staff for Camp Wood. Um, I kept getting nudged by several people in the diocese, including Suzanne and her family, um, that I should be on staff. And so last year was my first time, and it was a great time. I wasn't here for the full time, but this year, I made it a priority to be here for the full time.

>> Suzanne Avery: So he regretted not coming for the full time last year?

>> Brandon Kermer: This may be correct.

>> Clare: I will admit, this year, I have a little bit of fomo. I really want to be here.

>> Brandon Kermer: But you're here in spirit.

>> Clare: You're here right now.

>> Brandon Kermer: You're here right now.

>> Clare: Yeah, I'm here now. Right.

>> Josh McCall: This was a fun fact. My senior year, Brandon was my counselor.

>> Clare: Oh, really? No way.

>> Brandon Kermer: I totally forgot about that.

>> Josh McCall: Yeah. For the half week, he was here. He was in my cabin for my senior year.

>> Brandon Kermer: You were right. Wow.

>> Suzanne Avery: I m. Did not realize then.

>> Clare: Coming full circle.

>> Brandon Kermer: Yeah.

>> Josh McCall: Super fun.

>> Clare: I'm here for it.

>> Brandon Kermer: Wow.

>> Josh McCall: That's what makes you feel.

>> Suzanne Avery: It's only a year ago.

>> Brandon Kermer: I know about.

>> Clare: Say I think I'm seeing some gray.

How did your initial camp experiences shape how you think about faith or spirituality

Okay, so looking back, how did your initial camp experiences shape how you think about faith or spirituality?

>> Josh McCall: That's a. That's a tough one. For me. Back when elementary did healing services was the first time I felt like I'd been actual, actually, like, super vulnerable in the church. And it was the acceptance of those around me and, uh, specifically the adults that were present during that. That made me feel like this is a safe place. I want to keep coming back here. And that really kind of tied me down.

>> Suzanne Avery: I would say that seeing that there's, like, other people my age that are Episcopal, because in my specific church, there wasn't very many of us in the youth program. And coming here and seeing a whole bunch of people that are of similar faith as me.

>> Clare: Mhm.

>> Brandon Kermer: For me, right now, it's like being able to come here and see God's creation around us. Like, when you're at college, you don't really get a ton of time to, like, sit back and just be still, which is kind of the theme that we talked about yesterday in our program for senior high. So it kind of fits well. But, like, we were even sitting outside while we were discussing that, and, like, there was a nice, like, little breeze going on while the sunset was going down. So it's just. It was a great time to be still.

>> Clare: I think one of the beautiful things about Episcopal Megacamp in particular is that there are these moments when, um, the mystics will say, you're in a thin space where you can feel heaven and earth meet together. And I feel like so many of those small moments like you were talking about, Brandon, Reflection and slowing down are built into the camp experience. And just being present is such a gift. And that's how we kind of develop this beautiful thing called the spiritual life. And it's organic, and thank God for it, um, that we can have this small, small touchstone of the holy. Right.

>> Brandon Kermer: Definitely.

Going from camp life to college life can be a big shift

>> Clare: So going from camp life to college life can be a big shift. How is that transition for you? And did getting involved in campus ministry help with that change?

>> Josh McCall: For me, at least getting started, because I just started college last year. I just completed my first year, um, at least for the first month or so. Felt kind of similar to camp, where, like, there's always something happening. There's not a whole lot of downtime. You're trying to get your footing, figuring everything out. Um, but the more I got involved, the more I did things, um, the more it felt more like home. Kind of like how this place does now. Currently, there isn't anything for college ministry at Wichita right now. I'm trying to work and figure something out to get that going. But, um, I don't have the opportunity to go to an Episcopal church every Sunday because I sing in the choir at another church. But, um, I still need that Episcopal. So my first week before I started that job, I went into St Stephen's because it was the closest, um, Episcopal church to campus. And I sat down. I was immediately welcomed by people who I'd never seen before. And I think I started volunteering with the youth group that day. And to this day, I still help with the youth group. And I go, and I'm one of the youth leaders there. Just because it still feels like home, Even though it is so far away from where I grew up, it's still home, and it kind of helps ground me. Yeah, I'm having a rough time. Third semester, I'm like, that's okay. I have youth group on Sunday.

>> Brandon Kermer: We can figure it, uh, out. Yeah, I think I love telling this story because I want people to be able to learn from. Maybe my mistake. I came from, like, a pretty active youth group before going to college and then went to college. And of course it was like, Right. The time of COVID was hitting too. So that played into it as well. But I never. My freshman year, I didn't really get active at the Episcopal Church in Manhattan, because, honestly, I didn't really know there was Episcopal Church in Manhattan. And I also didn't fully realize that there was also a campus ministry at K State. So that freshman year, I kind of felt a void and what I was doing just because I went from this active youth group to absolutely nothing at that point. And then I kind of. I went to the activities carnival and then saw, like, the Episcopal logo on a banner on one of the tables. I'm like, hey, I recognize that. And then the, uh, rest is history. After that, I joined the campus ministry, and it was definitely changed my college experience, which has been fantastic.

>> Clare: I love that. Uh, that's great.

>> Suzanne Avery: My first year of college was really hard for me because it was hard to live away from my family and my parents for the first time. But that first year, my older brother was living at the K State Canterbury House. And so having that house to go to that first year and just hang out there with him. And the. At the time, the program assistant who was in charge of the house and just have that community and actual house to go to really helped that trans.

>> Clare: I went to a public, uh, university, and we didn't have campus ministry or the Canterbury House or anything, but there was a priest that was newly ordained that would bring Eucharist to campus once a week in the interfaith center. And I remember thinking that that was so special because I was kind of in this period of life where, um, I wasn't really sure about church, but I was sure about the Episcopal Church because I'm like, okay, these people are cool, and doesn't matter where I go. We're going to be using the same liturgy. So it's like a common lexicon, a common understanding of what to do, when to do it, things like that, with slight variations depending on how high or low church your parish is. I resonate a little bit each and every way with Yalls stories. So thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate that.

Can you think of a moment at camp or campus ministry that challenged you

My next question is, can you think of a moment, either at camp or in campus ministry that really challenged you or helped you grow in faith in a new way?

>> Josh McCall: Um, at camp, I feel like everywhere you turn, you see God. Like, it's kind of hard not to feel God whenever you're here. Um, and I really felt that for the first time, years and years and years ago, like, maybe a year or so before COVID um, which doesn't feel like it was years and years and.

>> Clare: Years ago, but I know we believed it was 5.

>> Josh McCall: I don't even want to mess with that. There we were up on highway. So at camp we have, um, we call it Mega Eucharist up on highway, which is a big stone, not circle, but it's like an amphitheater. Then we do a, ah, big Eucharist with all three camps together. And it's a very, very special moment. And I remember this year in particular, there was a really big storm coming in from behind us. So, um, you're facing that. You can't see the storm. And everyone said, oh, my God, look, there's lightning. And you turn around, and it's like the most gorgeous picture you've ever seen in the sky. And at that moment, I'm just like. I knew that God was there. And I've felt Him every. Every step I take here since. It really just kind of clicked for me.

>> Brandon Kermer: Yeah, for me, um, it was at K State Canterbury. And, uh, we go. Every fall semester, we go on a hike on the Konza Trail, kind of in the evening when, like, the sun's setting, um, just as a kind of a way to get out of the house for once, maybe a little bit. And this past year, we had Father Sean. I think he's from. Is it abilene? Yeah, yeah.

>> Clare: St. John's yeah.

>> Brandon Kermer: Um, he joined us for that, and he brought a new perspective to it. I've always enjoyed that hike just because, like, it's so peaceful. I. I'm. I just talked about being still. So, like, I'm still on that kind of same topic. But Father Sean talked about, you can see all the different layers of sediment building up on all of the hills there. And, like, who was. Who is responsible for, like, piling all those layers up? So obviously there's somebody there. So that, like, totally kind of changed my perspective on the creation around us.

>> Suzanne Avery: I would say that kind of going back to, like, coming to camp for the first time, um, that really helped me grow personally, um, to like, kind of take that big step to actually come, um, and then, like, opening myself self up to coming opened me up to, like, everything else for the whole week.

>> Claire: Yeah.

>> Clare: Holy Spirit gets what she wants, no matter what it is. But I'm glad that it was a positive experience, though. Very, very glad that it was.

Being part of an Episcopal community helps you figure out things in life

So college is full of big questions and tough stuff, Real stuff that you might not have experienced in high school. How has being part of an Episcopal community, be it camp or college, helped you figure out things in life, help you feel grounded and go?

>> Josh McCall: College, uh, was really, really scary for the first. I was ready to move out of home. And then I got there and I realized kind of what I'd done to myself. I went where I didn't know anybody. That was my plan. It's like, I'm not going to know anyway. It's a fresh start. And then I got there. I'm like, I don't know anybody. This is a fresh start. That's scary.

>> Clare: Yeah.

>> Josh McCall: Um, I had no family in town. I knew very, very few people, and all of them I would never interact with usually. So I'm actually really, really grateful to the community of St. Stephen's because I went to church the first time and was just kind of reminded that there are still people there who are in my corner, even if they're not always there. And I'm really grateful for the church for that, because no matter where you go, you are supported by the church. And I've felt that as a young person in the church. Um, and that's a great feeling to.

>> Brandon Kermer: Have, having K State Canterbury be something that happens on, like, a routine. Every Monday night we get together for free food and fellowship is kind of our phrase this past year. It's kind of served as a way to, like, ground myself at the start of each week. I remember, especially when you, Claire, came to Canterbury. Was that October? October, yeah. I had just gotten off like, one of my, like, architecture reviews at that point. And I came back to the house, like, pretty irritated because I went overtime by quite a bit. And that night that you brought, I think your program was like a meditation that was perfect timing that moment. And, like, by the end of the program. Like, I was calm at that point.

>> Clare: Uh, I'm glad it served you well.

>> Brandon Kermer: Yeah, very well.

>> Suzanne Avery: Mine's kind of the same answer is just the routine. I really like having a routine. And that just helps every Monday night to, again, just start off the week in community and with a group of people that are supporting you.

>> Clare: Trying to remember when I was in college, I think the thing that grounded me most, and this is going to be totally liturgical nerdy Ness, as you all know, that I'm a liturgical nerd. Um, but because at the time I was doing a lot of interfaith work and interfacing with people of a lot of diverse backgrounds. For me, receiving Holy Eucharist every week grounded me in my own tradition for why I engage with so many people who are different than myself in identity and religious belief, things like that. Because it reminded me that I could see God and see the face of Jesus in other people who might not say that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. Like, I said it for me because it just works for me. So, um, I love that. Yeah.

Are there any camp lessons, spiritual practices you still hold on to post college

Kind of circling back to camp a little bit. Are there any camp lessons, spiritual practices, or just good life habits you still hold on to in your college or now post college? Young adult life?

>> Josh McCall: I don't remember who it was or really what year it was because I've just been doing it for so long. We had. I think it was during worship, um, because we have. We have program. We have worship every day at all three camps. Um, and it's not. Sometimes it's like an actual church service, but sometimes just here's different ways to. I think, um, the whole point of our whole program this year is different ways to go about worship or go about the church. And I don't remember who it was, but someone told me it's like, sometimes you just gotta just breathe and just breathe. So every time I'm like, I'm frustrated or like something's not not going my way, or like, I just need help. I don't remember who taught me that, but I years. I do it every single day, multiple times a day. But it's very, very helpful. I can't think of that.

>> Clare: Yeah, I had a similar experience. Um, former boss of mine, he would always start staff meeting, and the staff at the church that I worked at, I think was like, close to like. And during COVID we would all have to join on Zoom, and he would always say, breathing God's mercies. Breathe out God's mercies to the whole world. And I Catch myself doing that, especially when I'm entering a space that I either don't know about or, um, feel very unsure about. So I definitely appreciate the pause, the breathe, and let the holy just do its thing. So, Brandon, Suzanne, thoughts? And it can be silly, too. It doesn't have to be super, like, theological or anything like that.

>> Suzanne Avery: Um, one of the things that we usually do at most of our. Our staff meetings is, um, the program director or camp director of each camp will ask what level your canteen is at. And so that's just kind of something that I've taken to, like, assess myself throughout the day of, like, how low is my canteen? And, like, how do I fill it back up before it gets too low?

>> Clare: Self care.

>> Suzanne Avery: Yep.

>> Clare: Here for the win. Brandon, what about you?

>> Brandon Kermer: I'm not sure I can really think of anything right at the second, just because I don't have the camp experience that these other two have. But I'm looking forward to trying to figure out, like, what life after campus ministry looks like now that going into the full adult life.

>> Clare: If I had to learn something from camp in particular, it would be sunscreen. Sunscreen and bug spray.

>> Brandon Kermer: Okay. I just thought of something. Drink more water.

>> Suzanne Avery: Because I. Yeah, the other thing with the canteen level is, like, literally, how full is your canteen with water?

>> Clare: Yeah.

>> Suzanne Avery: Right.

>> Josh McCall: I give a challenge to my campus today. I said, I challenge each of you to drink two and a half bottles of water. Oh, I don't know if it's working.

>> Clare: Feeding the competitive side.

>> Josh McCall: Yeah, well, it's working.

>> Clare: We'll pray that it's working. Okay.

>> Suzanne Avery: Um.

What's the biggest difference between community you found at camp and what you've experienced at campus ministry

>> Clare: What'S the biggest difference and maybe the biggest similarity between the community you found at camp and what you've experienced at campus ministry? And you can speak to this from both the camper perspective or camp staff perspective? Um, because like you, Brandon, I've only served on staff. I've never been a camper myself. So I see you, I hear you.

>> Brandon Kermer: I feel. Feel a little bit better now.

>> Josh McCall: That's. That's hard because, um. Because right now there isn't a real solid campus ministry at, uh, Wichita. It's me and whoever I can force to come with me and just do, like, Coplin or something. And I, um. Uh. But camp. I remember my camp friends helped me through every struggle at camp. Whether it was I didn't like the food in the dining hall or I didn't get enough food or I was sunburnt, um, or whatever. But my camp friends became my camp family, and a lot of those people became my camp family outside of camp. They became my spiritual family, my church family. And, uh, I'm really hoping to kind of cultivate that same kind of community in Wichita with whatever we end up doing.

Suzanne: What is the biggest difference between camp and campus ministry

>> Clare: And then, Suzanne, let's start with you. What is the biggest difference and maybe biggest similarity between the community you found at camp versus campus ministry?

>> Suzanne Avery: So the biggest difference, I would say, is that at camp, you're here for a full week, um, and with the same people every single day for the whole day. And campus ministry, it's usually only once a week, maybe even twice a week, um, that you're seeing these people. So you really have to be intentional about reaching out to the people you're around versus at camp, you're kind of forced to be together every day.

>> Clare: Forced family fun.

>> Suzanne Avery: Yes.

>> Brandon Kermer: Uh, I'll go with the similarity on this one. Um, so at K State, as a peer minister, you're tasked with helping, um, lead program. Um, whether that be Monday, where whenever you have program and you lead program, you go through a whole bunch of discussion questions based on what you just talked about. And we do that very similarly here. We'll have a program, and then we'll split up into our family groups and then dive deeper into some discussion questions to maybe get the youth thinking a little bit deeply about their spiritual life.

>> Clare: For sure. For sure. And then we're down to our last two questions.

If you could dream up the future of Episcopal camps and campus ministry, what would that look like

If you could dream up the future of Episcopal camps and campus ministry, what would that look like? More retreats, perhaps. More memes. A hell of a lot more snacks. Am I allowed to say that? I think I'm allowed to say that. Maybe, uh, the unofficial eighth sacrament of the church, AKA coffee. Um, or third one, if you think it's that. Yeah. What. What would you dream up, like, as.

>> Josh McCall: A whole or for the dice, Go.

>> Clare: With what you feel.

>> Josh McCall: Honestly, I would like. So I went. I had the privilege of going to UIE a few years ago, which was so, so cool because it was like camp, but bigger. And so I came back. I'm like, I want camp, but bigger. I think the best thing we could do is just the bigger. The bigger the scale, the better for our youth and for our young adults. Uh, all youth and young adults want to. Is to be. Or at least I wanted to, was to be taken seriously. When I felt I was just as serious as all the adults in my parish, um, I didn't feel dismissed, but I felt like I wasn't always heard as much as I felt like I could have been. Um, so I've always been a big advocate for um, youth on vestries and, um, youth having a say and the voice in the church. So the bigger the scale for and the bigger the opportunities for our youth and young adults. Um, I think that's my dream, is that we all get the same opportunities, I guess.

>> Clare: Preach.

>> Suzanne Avery: I got pretty much the same exact answer as you. Bigger and better.

>> Brandon Kermer: Uh, I think they're obviously doing something right here at Camp Wood, because if you have all these people who went through the youth program and are now coming back to be on staff, I think that tells everything of how successful this has been. Um, but one thing I will say is I need an espresso machine. I don't do black coffee. I do espresso.

>> Clare: Taking notes now. Maybe I add that to the K State Canterbury House. One way or another. We'll fundraise for that.

What would you say to someone on the fence about trying camp or Episcopal group

Okay, and our last question. What would you say to someone who's on the fence about trying camp or checking out an Episcopal group in college? Why do you think it's worth it?

>> Josh McCall: There's a lot of things you could say, but I think first and foremost is, what do you have to lose? Um, you're never going to find a more welcoming or accepting group. Um, and if you decide it's not for you, it's not for you. But it's going to be pretty hard to decide it's not for you. I think I've never felt anything but welcome or home. Anytime I do anything where I'm surrounded by people from the Episcopal Church. So just, um, go for it, I guess.

>> Clare: Yes.

>> Suzanne Avery: Mine's kind of the same thing as, like, you don't know what you don't know. So go and try it and step out of your comfort zone, um, and see what it's all about.

>> Brandon Kermer: I would say absolutely do it. Um, I wish I would have gotten involved earlier on because I feel like I definitely missed out on a few things, but I'm kind of trying to make up for that, being on staff. Um, and like, this year, I even got my brother roped into coming, so he's here as a youth. So it was kind of cool to be on staff while he's on youth, too, making disciples.

>> Clare: We love it.

Josh, Brandon, Suzanne, thank you so much for sharing about ministry

All right, well, Josh, Brandon, Suzanne, thank you so much for sharing about your experience in both camp and campus ministry. Um, I'd love to have you back on the podcast about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church, whatever sparking you joy about being an Episcopalian these days. Um, and as I like to say, because we are a people of prayer. Um, we are prayer book people. I'm wondering if one of you would be willing to read one of the collets for either for young people or for college students. I mean, if you don't want to read aloud, I can, um.

>> Josh McCall: Sure, I'd love to. God our Father. You see your children growing up in an unsteady and confusing world. Show them that your ways give more life than the ways of the world and that the following you is better than chasing after selfish goals. Help them to take failure not as a measure of their worth, but as a chance for a new start. Give them strength to hold their faith in you and to keep alive their joy in your creation through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.

All things Episcopal podcast is a production of the Diocese of West Missouri

>> Clare: All right, friends, well, thank you so much for joining us, um, out in the wild in, uh, the Flint Hills of Kansas. Okay, I'm getting there, folks. And, um, we'll. We'll catch you next time. All right? Peace be with you all.

>> Brandon Kermer: Peace with you.

>> Claire: Hey, friends, thanks for listening. Please like and subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about all things Episcopal on the Diocese of West Missouri's communication Pages, please visit dio westmo.org podcasts. And in the Diocese of Kansas, please visit edok pod formation.WordPress.com allthingsepiscopalpodcast. All things Episcopal podcast is a production of the Diocese of West Missouri and the Diocese of Kansas in association with Resonant Media.

>> Clare: SA.