All things…Episcopal

All Things Episcopal is a weekly podcast about the Episcopal Church

>> Clare: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church. This podcast was designed with young people in mind and as, ah, a space to learn more about the Christian faith with the Episcopal lens. So in traditionally Episcopalian greeting fashion, the Lord be with you.

>> Haley Cobb: Hello, friends. It's Hayley Cobb here. Welcome back to another episode of All Things Episcopal. Today is a day the All Things Episcopal crew here have been waiting for for several months, some might say several years. We have a very special guest on the podcast today, the newest bishop in the Episcopal church, the Right Reverend Amy Daffler Meaux, 9th Bishop of West Missouri.

All Things Episcopal welcomes Bishop Mo to the podcast

Bishop Moe, welcome to All Things Episcopal.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Really? I'm getting so emotional.

>> Haley Cobb: Not yet, not yet. We can't get there yet. Okay. This is a very exciting day and we're very excited to have you here. In addition to Bishop Mo being with us, I'm joined by Father David Wilcox, who, like me, is also representing the Diocese of West Missouri. And we're also joined by our other co hosts, Claire Sternberbano and Mother Karen Schlabaugh, who are representing the Diocese of Kansas. And as our listeners know, this podcast is very much one that seeks to educate through storytelling and share resources about the Christian faith through the Episcopal lens.

>> Clare: Thanks, Haley.

Bishop Mo came into the Episcopal Church through youth ministry

Um, hey, everyone, it's Claire. Bishop Meaux, we'd love to hear a bit about your journey with the Episcopal Church, particularly if you have spent time in the church as a youth through your young adult years. How did you end up in this wonderfully weird and holy chaos of the Episcopal Church? As I like to say, we are a band of contrite misfits with incense, potlucks and oddly spec liturgical colors and fashion. So we'll start with that question first.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Okay, thank you. Well, yeah, I came into the church because of youth ministry. Let's see, when I was in about fifth grade, my parents left an ELCA church in a very small town in North Carolina. My dad became a seventh day golfer and my mom started visiting other churches. The Presbyterian church is rather large in that community and she knew she didn't want to go to a Presbyterian church, so she found herself in a small mission church. That church is still in existence and is still a mission church. And she really enjoyed the priest there. And so we. That's how I came into the Episcopal Church, was through that place. I had heard a call to ordained ministry when I was, uh, about eight years old. I went to a Lutheran ordination and left that, telling people that I was going to be a priest when I grew up. And people would say, well, we don't have priests in the Lutheran Church. We have pastors. And I would say, I'm still going to be a priest. Like, what's a word? And so when I found myself in the acoustic, we all began to understand what that meant. When I was in ninth grade, my parents moved from North Carolina to a suburb of New Orleans, Louisiana, and I was devastated. I had been really involved in youth ministry in the Diocese of North Carolina at that point of my life. And thanks be to God for youth ministers, because the diocesan youth coordinator of North Carolina for Payne called the diocesan youth coordinator in Louisiana, Joy Worth, and told. Told her that I was coming to the North Shore of Louisiana and that I needed to be, um, on their youth council. And I really think that that. I mean, that's. This sounds really dramatic, but I really think it saved my life. And so I got to be on youth council for Louisiana. I got to be on provincial senate for the youth for Pye. I got to help plan Pye Provincial youth event. I got to go to eye. That was in Montana. Missoula, Montana. Really. The church just became the place where I felt the most comfortable in the world. So that's how I came into the Episcopal Church, and that's why I stayed in the episod Episcopal Church. I will say this. When I graduated from seminary and was getting ordained and looking for jobs, I was so clear about not wanting a youth ministry job because I didn't want to be, like, pigeonholed, you know, into, like, youth ministry. And that lasted for, like, a solid six months. And then I was like, I was going to all the youth group things at the church where I was serving at the time. And so it became evident to me and everyone else that I was called to go back into youth ministries. My heart is with children in youth ministry, even in this new vocation of the episcopacy.

>> Clare: I think Mother Karen and I, we might be a little biased there, along with Haley and, well, actually, all of us, uh, because we've served in youth ministry in some capacity.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I'm like, please pigeonhole me into youth ministry.

>> Clare: I. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Maybe it's because I'm getting ready to leave my current position, and I have some kiddos who are like, so, who do we protest about you leaving? I'm like, I've done my job.

What brings you joy outside of the church? Um, well, my family

Well, then, um, we'd also love to hear about your interests. Like, what. What brings you joy? What. What makes you come alive outside of the church?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Um, well, my, my family. I was about to say my children first, but I can't exclude my husband Jared. I mean, they are my favorites. You know, my top four is what I say. And we have two dogs and I love them. I hope that our dogs are still speaking to me when I get home at the end of May. We'll see.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Um, you should video it. It'll be like one of those, like, returning, like people returning from being deployed things. They'll be so excited.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: They will. Our little dog can smile. Have you ever seen a dog smile? It's so creepy, but it's so sweet at the same time. It's so precious.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: Um, it's cute.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It is. It is cute. It's also kind of creepy though, because it's like, it's like y' all can't.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): It's like a two year old who doesn't know.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's this weird. I don't know, dog smiling is strange. Anyway, so that brings me great joy. Um, I love to read and I love to read, um, fiction. Um, like when I say I love to read, I'm not talking about St. Augustine's confession at all. I'm talking about like really weird science fiction and fantasy books. Um, I love. And that brings me a lot of joy. The ability to escape into a story. I love, I love to take long walks, really long walks. And I love to knit. Some of you all know, know this. Some people listening know this about me. But when my kids were 4 and 2, I needed an outlet so badly. And I stopped at like Michael's and picked up some yarn and some sticks, some needles and a book that said like, you know, something like learn how to a knit or whatever in five easy stuff. I mean, who knows? And I completely ignored them for like three hours that day. And my children and my husband and taught myself how to knit. And, uh, it was a rainbow scarf. Yeah, it was. For the longest time it just got passed around in our family. And then eventually it probably made its way to Goodwill. Hopefully someone is letting that scarf live its best life. But, um, that knitting is, um, really a place where I find a lot of peace. It's good. It's good. I love that for you.

>> Clare: I love that for you.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Me too.

>> Clare: It seems like a lot of my favorite people. I don't know about y' all, but, um, a lot of my favorite people are knitters. And like my sister in law, every year she knits us like a hat or a scarf for Christmas. It's great.

>> Haley Cobb: It's true. My sister's finishing up a blanket for me. And so I'm like, yes, I love it. I'm so excited.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: There's nothing like the blankets. I think the blankets, like, because you keep them, and then, uh, when you use them, like, you think about that person, you know, Or. I have a blanket that my youth group in, um, our tween group made in Dallas when I was serving in Dallas, um, when our son was born. And it's like all these wonky squares, right? They were learning how to knit, so none of the squares. But then one of the prayer shawl ministers knit all the squares together. And so. And I. I've had that in my office ever since. It's. I suppose it's officially my son's blanket, but I've kept it.

>> Clare: I think it's fair.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I think it's fair to carry my body for eight months. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Clare: I consider.

We would love to know an unfun fact about yourself

And one of the last questions that we always ask is because perfection is boring, we would love to know an unfun fact about yourself.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I mean, this is a great question. I think every fact about every person is interesting. So I've been sitting here trying to think of, like, what's a. What's an unfun fact? I mean, here's something like, are you a shoe, shoe? Like a sock, sock, shoe, shoe person? Or are you a shoe? All right, you have to put your socks on first. Are you a sock, shoe, sock, shoe? Or in our left foot or right foot first? Like, that's an unfun fact that I somehow now all of a sudden think could be really interesting. I think that I am a left sock, left shoe, right sock, right shoe person. Oh.

>> Haley Cobb: Um.

>> Clare: Now I'm sitting here thinking, how did I put my shoes on this?

>> Haley Cobb: And I didn't realize I'd have such strong feelings about, like, putting a full sock and shoe on before putting the other sock on. Because I'm definitely a sock, sock, shoe, sho.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): But me too.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: Same Hailey. I'm not allowed to wear shoes in the house. So.

>> Haley Cobb: Yeah, that. That changes. That affects it. I love that question. That's what a great.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Like.

>> Haley Cobb: Yeah, Tidbits. Random tidbit to know.

>> Clare: Now I'm gonna be thinking about that the rest of the day. Yeah. We actually have house shoes.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Do you?

>> Clare: We do, yeah.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I have to have slippers that have a solid bottom on them because, like, a hard bottom. Because, um, my husband has a relationship with water, which means it doesn't affect him in any way. Like, there can be water on the floor. He walks right through it. He could really care less. And there's nothing worse than walking in water when you're wearing socks. Could I get an amen?

>> Clare: Amen.

>> Haley Cobb: Amen.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: It is the worst thing ever.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's the worst ever. And so I have always had hard bottom slippers, which I guess are house shoes.

>> Clare: Yeah, I'd say so. Uh, I'd say so.

>> Haley Cobb: That's gonna be my new, like, go to icebreaker. Like, what is your sock shoe process. Thank you for that. I.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): The other one that gets people going is, like, do you put water on your toothbrush before the toothpaste or after the toothpaste?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Oh, no, before. After. You do.

>> Haley Cobb: Before and after. Yes. These are the things we need to know.

>> Clare: Okay, Karen, I think these need to be added to the intro for mega camp stuff. Like, icebreaker stuff.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Listen, I think at mega camp, we're just hoping that people brush their teeth. Right. Like.

>> Clare: True.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Once during the week. Right.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: If they brush their teeth at shower, we're happy. I mean.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Yeah. I mean, showering. Wow.

>> Clare: True. There's a reason why I always pack better shower.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: We had a parent at camp, this was in the diocese of Lexington, and she was so excited because she told us later that when she'd open her son's suitcase, he had packed his bag the exact same way that she had packed it for him.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: Meaning he didn't change clothes the entire week.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Right, Exactly. But we want to break our hearts. And we're like, oh, so sweet. Yeah, great job.

>> Clare: Oh, dear. We'll pray for that.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Also, can I say this? The one thing that camp taught my boys is that they could sleep in, like, regular clothes. Like, they. They thought that everybody had to sleep and that you had to wear pajamas. And so, um, it came home from camp, and they were like, we can go to bed in the clothes we're going to wear the next day. And initially, as a mom, I was like, oh, I don't know that I like that.

Camp sleeping on clothes is a genius idea for parents

It is a genius idea. Your kids can sleep until, like, 10 minutes before I have to walk out the door, and then out they go. It's so. It's so smart. So, yay, camp.

>> Clare: I'm taking note, uh, for future parenting advice.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: M. Sleeping on clothes. Who cares?

Children and youth, college and young adults submit questions for bishop questionnaire

>> Clare: So because you're the newest bishop in the Episcopal Church and some folks might not know you as well, we requested that children and youth, college and young adults submit questions for you to get to know you a bit more. So some of these questions are silly. Some of them are theological, kind of heavy lifting ones, and then some are just get to know the bishop questions. So my fabulous co host and I are going to take turns asking the submitted questions and the order that we're going to follow in for our listeners so you won't get lost in whose voice is. Whose is going to be. Father David will go first, then it'll be Haley, then Mother Karen, and then myself. So I'm going to toss it over to Father Dave.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: Thanks, Claire.

Terry Cobb says the Gospel of Mark is his favorite gospel

This first question comes from Terry Cobb, who's a parishioner at St. Philips in Trenton. And she asks, is there a particular Bible passage or story from Jesus's life that has special meaning or resonance in your life? Perhaps a go to verse or story when you need reassurance?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Such a great question. Claire sent me some of these questions ahead of time and I was so grateful, especially for ones like this, because how do we. How do we. How do I choose from this story that has been so formative and is such the foundation of who I believe I am and who God made me to be? So I had to. I just been sitting with it and I guess I wanna say the Gospel of Mark is my favorite gospel. It always has been. Because I find that gospel to be so raw and intense and I like intense things. Um, but I know how the ending is, so that helps. And I love that the Gospel of Mark ends with the women fleeing the tomb because it allows for us, for me, it allows for me to enter into the story and wonder what I might have done next if I had been with those women. Um, in that moment. I also have a new. Have in the last five years, found a real fondness and love for the apostle Paul. He's hard and complicated and difficult. And I just really believe that he loves Jesus with his whole life once he was converted. And he wasn't afraid to make mistakes on behalf of the gospel. And I'm really grateful for that.

My favorite story is the story of the good shepherd

So I think I'll just sort of end with like, I suppose my favorite story is the story of the good Shepherd. But when I talk about that, and Haley kind of knows this because I had to preach about this at the discernment retreat, when I talk about the good shepherd, for me, it's not just Jesus saying, I am the good shepherd and telling the story. It's also the legacy that Jesus is calling on in the telling of that story, um, of what a shepherd is and what shepherds do and who they are in the way. Psalm 23 really represents God as being our shepherd and being with us in the dark places and the light places. It's the Whole thing. And for me, the story of the good shepherd cannot be told without thinking about godly play characters and, and remembering the first time I saw that story being told in a godly play way with like the little sheep, you know, the little wooden sheep. And sort of wondering about how, um, we experience the shepherd leading us. So I hesitate to say it's my favorite story because I love them all. It's like, what's your favorite child? I love all my children equally. Um, and um, the image of the good Shepherd, I think is really, really important to our understanding of who and whose we are. Yeah.

>> Clare: Mhm.

>> Haley Cobb: Thank you for that. Now you're making me get emotional.

Bishop Amy, do you like sports? And if you do

Okay, we're gonna move on to a very hard hitting story, especially as you're moving to Kansas City. Very much a proud sports team. So. Bishop Amy, do you like sports? This is, Sorry, this is a question from Julian Matson from the cathedral. Do you like sports? And if you do, who are your favorite teams?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: So our family has a saying. We just hope both teams are having fun. Uh, which makes us outliers in the, like, in the middle, literally anywhere. I mean every town, every place has their teams, right? I like baseball. Part of my knitting journey was learning to knit while watching baseball because baseball is so, so easy to watch. And I learned to love baseball by watching the Rangers, so they're probably my first love. But I really, like, I'm not really into team rivalries. I'm happy to root for the Royals and I'm really, I'm already anticipating like going to Royals games. So baseball is, I'm more into baseball than I am into like a particular team. Um, and I like minor league baseball. I like watching kids play baseball. It doesn't really matter to me. Like, I just, again, like, I want us to have fun. Can we just have fun? Um, I'm excited about becoming a Currents fan. Uh, so I'm looking forward to that experience. Um, and then, uh, this people, uh, uh, any young person listening to this might be like, I hope that there's someone who was listening to this and is like, yes, someone is finally speaking for pro cycling. Like for site watching cycling.

>> Clare: Yes.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: That is, my husband is a cyclist and I, yeah, I know I don't ride a bicycle. I didn't learn to ride a bike until I was 13 and it terrifies me. So I am not a bicycle rider, but my husband isn't huge cyclist. And about three years ago we bought, um, you know, a pass to watch the Tour Tour de France on Peacock. And both of us Were like, this is the most fun we've had in a really long time. And by fun, I mean, like, boring. Sitting there watching cycling while, like, reading or knitting or, like, playing guitar or whatever. And it has become a thing for us. Like, that is how we spend our weekday evenings. We watch online cyclists. We'll know. Well, we watch the Volta, which is done in Spain, and we watch the Tour de France, and then we watch the women's cycling. And let me just say this is my one. If anyone is. This is my one public complaint that if anyone's listening can fix it, that would be great. Jared and I would be happy to support you. The sound for the women cyclists is just. It's horrendous. Like, it's obvious they're not putting money into publicly, like, supporting female cycling. And so Jared and I would love to talk to somebody who can change that scenario.

>> Haley Cobb: Let's get.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: We'll work.

>> Clare: Yeah. I mean, we upgraded the mics here, so. Yeah, with $50 mic, it does feel.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Like if we can do that here at this podcast, they could probably do it.

>> Clare: Yeah. I mean, anything's possible.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Anything's possible. That's right.

>> Clare: Just commit.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: That's right.

The offering at your ordination was designated towards parish food ministries

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Okay, I think I'm next. And this is a question from Deacon Barbara Wagoner Wegener. Is that how you say it? Uh, from Grace and Holy Trinity Cathedral. And she asks about the offering at your ordination was designated towards parish food ministries. Have you been involved in food ministry in the past? And do you have thoughts for expansion of food ministries in the diocese of West Missouri?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Thank you. I was so glad that Barbara asked this question. Um, so where to start? I have been passionate about feeding children for as long as I can remember. I think one of the greatest weaknesses of our culture and maybe humanity is that we let children go hungry. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I don't know why we would not feed children. Um, and there's so much food. There's so much food, uh, so much food waste. There's just. There's no reason why we don't feed people, and there's especially no reason why we don't feed children. So when I was serving at a church in, uh, Danville, Kentucky, um, we became involved. I personally became involved in a ministry that was being run by some gentlemen at a Methodist church. Found out that there were children in our county that didn't have food over the weekend. And so they started putting food in brown paper bags and taking them to the schools to be delivered to those homes over the weekend. And I think they started out by feeding, like, 30 kids. Um, by the time I left there, maybe say, 15 years after they started, we were feeding 300 children in the county. Um, it's called. It was called Backpack for Kids. There were no backpacks involved. The food was in brown boxes. And we were doing more than just feeding them. We were feeding their families, and we were feeding them at Christmas, and we were feeding them at Easter as well. Um, and we were raising tens of thousands of dollars every year so that we could purchase food from the food bank as well as, um, begin to add, like, fresh fruits and vegetables to these boxes. But the meals, the food was really meant to be kid centered and kid friendly. So packages that they could open and knowing that there was going into homes where there likely wasn't even a microwave to be able to heat food. Right. So Chef Boyardee packages and shelf life milk, Right. For the weekend. It was a joy to be a part of that program. So it started out in this one little church kitchen with these gentlemen packing these paper bags. By the time we were done, we had a whole pantry that was. And this was a, um, interdenominational effort. And we built the 501C3 so that we would be able to raise as much money as we needed. We had a 5k, uh, called the Jenny Carroll Run that was in memory of a young mother who had died, um, in a tragic way at a young age with young children, um, and students from all over the county. So this was in a county that had two high schools. And I don't know if you guys know about high school rivalries. I don't know if that's a thing here in Missouri. Sure it is. Um, in this county, those high schools, uh, have a huge rivalry with one another. And so we would use that as an opportunity to not only, uh, collect food and raise money for a backpack for kids, but we would bring those students together, uh, who say, we're playing sports against one another, and they would pack the bags together. Um, and it just was a real. It became a real unifying force in our county. So when I left there to go to the cathedral, um, in Little Rock, I was still, obviously, still cared about feeding people. And Arkansas has done an incredible thing. They've created the Arkansas Hunger Relief alliance, which is the state of Arkansas. The population in Arkansas is small. You know, Arkansas is basically just like one big urban city spread out over a whole state. And so the alliance gathers together every food pantry, no matter their size, in the state of Arkansas, and sources them with food from any of the state food banks, and also with grants and ways that we can. And they also advocate for free school lunch and free school breakfast and also summer SNAP programs and feeding children over the summer. So I had the great privilege of being. Of being able to serve on that board when I was at the cathedral in Little Rock and really feel like we were not just working with legislation, uh, but also working with all of the different organizations that seek to feed people who are hungry. So, you know, I don't know much about how West Missouri, how it works. Right. Like, um, how those things come together. I'm looking forward to learning about it. I know that many, if not all of our faith communities here in West Missouri are involved in food ministries in some capacity. Right. There's Pete's Garden. There's Casey. Nourish or Nourish. Kc. Nourish. Kc. I'm sure that there are food banks in our state, and I. It wouldn't at all surprise me if there's not a way for the Diocese of Missouri and the Diocese of West Missouri to come together. And this could become something that we, if we wanted be so Become something that we, as an Episcopal Church could really respond to. I guarantee you that there are hungry children across the state, especially with all the new legislation that's seen to get away. What is the word? Defund. Uh, um, free school lunches and free school breakfasts. Um, we know children can't learn on an empty stomach. I mean, the other day I was trying to, like, write an email on an empty stomach. And I'm a. I'm an adult. Like, I needed food in order to think, um, what do we expect for children? Right? Uh, how. How can we imagine that they could possibly begin to learn if they're hungry? Um, yeah.

>> Clare: Jesus said, feed the people.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Feed them. He fed them before he did anything else. Yeah.

>> Clare: Yeah, that is true.

What does it mean to you to be a bishop in the Episcopal Church

Our next question comes from, uh, Nora, um, a youth here at, uh, the cathedral. She asks, what does it mean to you to be a bishop in the Episcopal Church? Also, what does it mean to be, quote, so persuaded, end quote, in your ordination vows to be a bishop?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: At the rehearsal, we were like, all the bishops were laughing about that because it's all in the inflection, right? Is it like, I am so persuaded, right. I am so persuaded. Right. It's such a great phrase. And who was it? Like, I wondered. I, uh, would love to know who on the standing liturgical commission was like, this. So has to be there. That. So that's really, like, who was. Who was making that happen. Yeah, right. It's such a great question. I have to confess that I don't have to confess. I'm going to confess that every time someone says bishop Mo, I think that my father in law is in the room. He's not a bishop. He doesn't even go to church. I don't know why I have that response. But, um, I'm still really getting used to the title. For me, at least today in this moment, the privilege and honor of being bishop here in West Missouri is related to how do we as a people unite on behalf of the gospel? And what a great privilege to be the. A person, one of the people who's connecting the spokes and connecting us to one another. Like, just looking at this group, like, the fact that we're all sitting around these microphones as the Episcopal Church and wondering about the ministry of the episcopacy, to me is really, really important. Right. It's such an ancient, uh, y' all, we have a new pope. Kenny's American. What? So, like, thinking about these ancient practices of appointing apostles and teachers and prophets and wondering what it means to still have those folks in our midst, I think is really, really important.

Amy says she was persuaded to be ordained bishop by a friend

Bishops. We say that bishops guard the faith, and that. That, to me, is a great privilege. I, uh, don't even know how to. To really put into words why. Maybe it's because I've spent so many years guarding my own faith. To imagine that I've been invited to help the church guard the faith feels very humbling in all the right ways. Yeah. And I do think. I mean, I do think I was persuaded. Um, I certainly didn't put my name in. In West Missouri because I thought I was the right candidate. I put my name in because a friend asked me to. And it's a friend who I love and respect, um, who, if he. If he were to say, you know, I wonder if you would consider really, uh, anything, I probably would say, sure, I'll at least try it for you. Right. So I do feel like I had to be, in many ways, needed to be persuaded. Um, uh, you know, in all the ways that any of us have to be persuaded about anything. I'm trying to. I'm trying to think about how, like, trying to think of an example. Um, for me, at least, there is a sense that I'm always wondering where my capacity comes from to do whatever the next thing is that's set before me. And this, this role of being a bishop felt beyond anything that one could strive for or be good Enough for. Or have enough for. And so the persuasion for me had had to do with, um, enough people asked me to do it. And so how it almost became offensive that I, that I wouldn't do it. I don't know if that makes any sense whatsoever. In the ordination service, y' all, there was that moment where at the beginning where Sean asks the congregation something like, isn't it your will that Amy be ordained bishop? Or something? And the response is, it is our will. Like it was so loud. And I thought, well, I better say I am persuaded. I am so persuaded. Or like I'm going to be in a lot of trouble with a lot of these people. And then I think the other persuasion part was I had so many moments during the discernment process of a palpable sense of the spirit's presence and guidance that I also knew that if, if I did not allow myself to be persuaded. You know, we do that sometimes, but allow. We don't allow ourselves to be persuaded into something for whatever reason that is. And um, that I knew that, that I would have to explain to God why I wasn't trust in. It started to feel like I was being unfaithful.

>> Clare: Jonah.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Jonah's a great. Yeah, that's a fantastic story. Yes, exactly right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

>> Clare: Yeah, mhm. Go for it.

When did the call to be a bishop become clear for you

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: This question is also from Nora and it's kind of a follow up. So when did the call to be a bishop become clear for you? Like when in the process.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): She's still waiting.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: So I don't even know if I should tell this story publicly. But, uh, I'm going to. And what, what are you gonna do? Fire me? You could fire me, I guess so. Um, I had stopped running years ago, probably during COVID I had been. I was not a track runner, cross country runner or anything like that. I just would run to not kill anyone, you know, like as a stress release. And um, so I had stopped running, but I started running during the discernment process for West Missouri again because it was just like this way of like releasing all this energy I felt.

>> Clare: Um.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: And so the morning of the election, I got up and I went on a run and I decided that, um, I was going to withdraw after the first ballot. So I, um. Um. And so here's my reasoning behind that, y' all, because I feel like I should explain myself. Explain yourself, Bishop. Bishop. No, the reason is because I had done all my research, quote, I had done all my research and I knew that all the elections this year had been four or five votes and Um, I didn't want to put my family or the diocese through that. I don't know if. If the Diocese of West Missouri knows this about itself, but at one time in its past, it actually had to shut down convention and electing Convent and reconvene three months later to continue the process of electing a diocesan. And I didn't. I wanted no part of that. I don't think that that's. That to me, was not. It would have been too painful for everyone. Right. The diocesan has already been through enough. It doesn't need to be taken through this ongoing, like, arguing within itself about who's. Who is going to be called as the diocesan. So that was one. And then also I didn't want to do that to my family. Um, this has been a huge time of transition for us, and I just didn't. I wanted them to have some sense of, um, priority in the process. Right. And then the third was my ego. Right. I just wanted to see how well I might do. Right. I mean, that's a. That's a normal response. Um, and then I was elected on the first ballot. So I guess I would say that that was the moment of the final persuasion of, um. Like, there's no, uh. That's it.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I. I feel like God is giggling at you.

>> Haley Cobb: Like, seems pretty clear.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Yeah, I think that that's exactly right, Jared. I think God is like, okay, well, watch this.

>> Clare: Isn't that the joke? Tell God all your plans and gotta laugh. I think that's how it goes.

>> Haley Cobb: Yeah. Yeah. Not sure if there's clarity and it's like, okay, here's, you know, some. Some help with that.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Or that somehow, like, it's about me and, like, what I think is best. Right? Like that. And that's. If you're listening to that story and you're, uh. For me, like, my inner critic is like, amy, listen to that story. Right? Like that is all about you being in charge and being in control, which is totally. Um, this for me, this, like, give me trying to be in control. Right. Which God is going to continue to undermine that within myself. Not because God is anything other than wanting soul desire, wanting me to remember who I. Who and whose I am first, which is a beloved child of God. And so my way of forgetting that is by thinking that somehow I belong to me and I, uh, belong to God. So.

>> Clare: That'Ll preach.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Try.

Have you always been Episcopalian or how did you become

>> Haley Cobb: Um, our next question we talked a little bit about in the intro. It comes from Theo at the cathedral. Have you always been Episcopalian? And if not, how did you become Episcopalian, if there's any. If you want to share a bit more about that story, your journey as a youth in the church.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Well, so this is a great opportunity for me to talk about my Grandpa Joe. If you've listened to me at all over the years, in the last 23 years, you already know about Grandpa Joe. So I am an only child, and I spent my summers with my grandparents, and I would spend a few weeks in the summer with my mom's parents. And then my Grandpa Joe, my dad's dad, would come and get me. My grandma still worked at the time, and so. But my grandpa was retired, so he'd come get me from wherever I was. We rode trains and buses and in cars. We went all over, sometimes Ohio and sometimes Florida. But when we were at their house, our Sundays were spent at Gloria Day Lutheran Church on Anna Maria island, which is an ELCA church, Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Um, and that was the church of. That's really the church I identify as the church of my childhood. Um, he was the treasurer of that church for, like, 25 years. And this was back in the day when you. The treasurers would carry the money bags home with them. They would. You could no more do that now at all. But I remember sitting at their glass dining room table and counting out the money. It's probably how I learned math. Counting out the money. And then you had to write out the deposit slip, you know, one check at a time. And then the next morning, on Monday mornings, we would get up and we'd go to the bank, and I always get a lollipop, and we make the deposit, we get our little deposit slip, and we go over to back to the church. And Pastor Lyly and my grandfather would sit and talk about church things and about probably theology and about the Bible. And I would just sit there and listen, maybe read my book and maybe color in a coloring book or something until they were done. And then throughout the week, my grandfather would take me to visit people in the hospital or we'd go to funerals. He was not ordained. He just loved people. Um, and he wanted them to know that Jesus loved them and that they were not forgotten. And these were mostly elderly people, right? This is Florida we're talking about, um, retirement community. So I would say, like, that I haven't always been a Episcopalian, but that sense of connection, that's where that comes from, is rooted in me from watching my grandfather in his ministry. And that's certainly what I have carried forward into my own sense. Uh, of identity and ministry. Is that. I mean, yes, denominations matter in the sense that they provide us a sense of community and a, uh, shared values. And really God sees so far beyond any denominational lines and that anyone can bring, you know, anyone can bring a pie to someone else or sit down and play a card game with them and ask them how they're doing or talk about the Bible, um, no matter their age or, uh, what their circumstances are. So I would say yes. I love the Episcopal Church. And the reason I love God is because my grandfather invested himself in me by completely, authentically inviting me to come along with him in his ministry.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): That was beautiful.

How old are you really? My sister thinks you look about 32

And now Claire's making me move on to a non beautiful question.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I love them. They're so fun, though.

>> Clare: I wonder what it is.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Also from Theo at the cathedral.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Theo contains multitudes.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Yeah. Um, we know that you are older than 30, but how old are you really? My sister thinks you look to be about 32 years old.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: 32, you know, is significantly older than 30. It is. There's a lot that happens in this.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: In those years, having just turned 30. I appreciate that.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Yeah. All that's ahead of you in the next two years, David. It's fantastic. Um, uh, my college roommate will tell you that the odd years are harder than the even years. She was. She wholeheartedly believes that she. She to this day, holds to that.

>> Clare: I believe that. Right.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Some reason for her, the odd numbers are like, they're just harder. This is what I'm. What I will say I'm older than I look. I graduated from high school in 19. People can do the math. I graduated from high school in 1992. I graduated from college in 1997. I graduated from seminary in 2002. I got married in 1999. She was married 26 years. And my children are 21, 18, and 12. So if I had my oldest child when I was 32, I would have been 12 at the time. So that's. I'm probably not 32.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Um, I think that's a good answer.

>> Clare: I think that's a solid answer.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: That's a solid math problem that should actually be on the AP exam for calculus. This. How old is Bishop Mo? Based on those facts I just gave.

>> Clare: I'll advocate for that.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: You would, right?

>> Clare: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, why not?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Why not?

>> Clare: Anything's possible with God tell.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: That's right.

Nick Bennett asks do you play any video games or phone games

>> Clare: Okay, switching gears to, uh, something sillier. Uh, Nick Bennett wants to know, do you play any video games or phone games? If so, what games?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I love this question. So um, and actually, I want to. I'm realizing I want to say more than what my original answer is. So the answer is yes, I love to play games. Um, I'm an only child. I grew up on my own in the country, and so I have played every board game that you can name against myself. So when they came out with video games, I was like, I'm in. Because you can play against the computer. Like, it's a miracle. You're not playing against yourself anymore. It's so good. So I had an Atari, and then I had a Nintendo Game Boy. Does anybody else here remember somebody? Thank you, Ryan.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I had an Atari.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: You had an Atari. Oh, good. Okay. Thanks, Karen. And then. Then all of a sudden, we, like, had these computer devices we carried around in our pocket. I should also say this. My husband is a, uh, software developer, so we've always had a computer in the house. So I used to play, like, the old school Sim Sims. Like, not. Not new Sims, but the old school Sims. And there was a game called Sims Tower where you could build a big tower. Had that game. I love that game. It's such a great game. Karen. To this day, Karen, when I get on an elevator, I think about the elevators I built. There was, like, a thing to it. Like, the elevators. You had to tell them, like, which floor to start on and stop on. I was a fantastic elevator builder. Were you? Did you build elevators? Yeah. Um, so, uh. So I love games now. On my phone, I have currently two games. Um, Candy Crush Soda, because it is more fun than regular Candy Crush, in my humble opinion. And also a game called Park Match, which basically is just like. You're just matching the people to the colored car. There's just probably strategy to it. Uh, I don't know the strategy.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: That game is strangely addicting.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's so addictive.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: It really is. And I can't. I don't understand why. I don't either, but it is.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I think it's back for me, back to the control thing. I get to tell people which car they go in, Right? Yeah.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: I appreciate that.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Yeah. I also will say that my daughter loves the game Project Makeover. Do you guys know this game?

>> Haley Cobb: Yeah.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's such a great game. I had to take it off my phone because I was just. It was. It was really encouraging within me, like, ideas about fashion that were, like, not. It just was not a good game for me. So I did. She was upset with me when I took it off, but she also would get upset with me if I got too far ahead of her in, you know, in the levels. And so it was just better for our relationship if I took it off my phone.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I, uh. Yeah, about every other lent, I have to delete all the games off my phone for lent because it's gotten bad again. That's a. That's a. That's a routine problem for me. Good thing we have lent.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Kids should know that adults love to play those kinds of games.

>> Clare: Yeah.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Right. Because. Yeah.

The other thing I love to do that I thought of with this question is Mario

The other thing I love to do that I thought of with this question is Mario. So I don't know what it's called, but Mario Super Mario has, like, a family night thing. Yeah. Yeah.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: Ah, Mario Party. Yeah.

>> Clare: Oh, my gosh. That. That is. Yes. Yes, it is. And it's very addicting.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's so addicting. And so. But one Christmas, two Christmases ago, Lisa was like, we're gonna play Mario Party as a family. And I was like, okay, that's. I'm so in. And we played for hours. It was so much fun. Yeah, I'm all in for that kind of stuff.

>> Clare: I'm not a video game person by any stretch of the imagination, but I vividly remember the weekend that my mom was at Cursillo and my stepdad was left in charge. We ate pizza, ice cream, and donuts for, like, three days straight and just stayed up all night playing Mario Party. My mom came back and was like, claire, why are your spacers for your braces, like, on the table? I'm like. Like, I don't know. We were busy having fun.

>> Haley Cobb: Sounds like a wonderful weekend.

>> Clare: It was awesome. It was awesome. It was great parenting right there by my stepdad.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Uh, I'll just say on behalf of my kids. My kids play Skyrim and Zelda, and there's some other. I should probably stop there. There's some other new game that Woodrow's really into. I can't think of what it's called.

>> Clare: Yeah, I got nothing.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Yeah.

>> Clare: Got nothing.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: At some point, I'm going to need you to explain how you play board games against yourself. But that's a story for another day.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Well, hopefully we don't have many hours to spend together, Father David. Um, and so I will happily share with you, uh, how you do that. You don't actually have to get up and move around or a side table. You can just stay where you are. My favorite game, board game, is Triamina. And if you. I will bring my set to work. You know, some youth retreat one weekend, and I will beat everyone. But it'll be fun. I'm not competitive at, um, All.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Everyone's really excited to play with you now.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: Yeah, for sure.

Norm asks, have you read all the Harry Potter books, slash movies

So the next question comes from Nora again, and she asks, have you read and. Or seen all the Harry Potter books, slash movies? If so, which is your favorite and why? And then she says, our youth group loves Harry Potter. We even did a Bible study on Harry Potter and Scripture. And I'm going to add to that question. If you haven't seen read them, why not?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Why not? So here's my Mary Potter story. Uh, I have read through book five. Yes. I've read through book five, got to the end of book five, and I was very upset about the ending. Like, emotionally distraught with the ending. And so I, uh. I was in seminary, y' all. This is how. Anyway, I did fine in seminary. I also read Harry Potter. I was in seminary. Okay, so.

>> Clare: So did I. I mean, whatever.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: We're all doing the best we can. So I got to the. So six comes out, and I started it, and I thought, I can't do this. I can't do it anymore. She's gonna. She's gonna break me. She being J.K. rowling is gonna break me. I, uh, could kind of had a sense of, like, where it was going. And so I was out. So I didn't have. Not read book six or seven. And when my husband has read the whole series and all my children have as well, and when, um, Jared got to the end of book seven, I'm great. Tell me how it ends. And he was like, that's not fair. If you want to know how it ends, you have to read the whole thing. And I was like, well, if you don't tell me, I'm going to just go, like, I may get someone else to tell me, so you might as well tell me. And he was like, you go ask your friends. I'm not telling. You want to know how it ends, you got to read the books. So that's how it goes. Rolls in my house. So that's why I didn't finish it. It's not some, like, deep theological moment or. It's just that I just couldn't. I couldn't have my heart broken into a thousand pieces over and over again. My favorite one, I think, is book four. What's the name of book four? Who knows them?

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): The Goblet of Fire.

>> Clare: Yes.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Is it the green one? It's green.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: That sounds right.

>> Clare: That sounds right.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: So Goblet of Fire. Because four. I think it's either three or four, where their friendships are, like, really solidified, um, in the books. And that, uh, as an only child I craved siblings. And so I projected that emotion and experience onto my friendships. And watching them have such incredible friendships was really valuable to me. And, um, love that aspect of the story. And I have a response to Norm. She. I don't know who this child is. I don't know about her mother. I don't know if she's allowed to read anything she wants. So this comes with the caveat of, like, she has to speak to her parent about this first to make sure it's okay with them. But I'm hopeful that she's read Wrinkle in Time, uh, because it is as powerful a story as Harry, uh, Potter. And it's a five book series. And also there's a series, it starts with a book called We Free Men about a young woman named Tiffany Aching. It's a five book series. It's part of a much larger series, but the first book's called We Free Men and it's about a young girl who comes. She's a. So you have to be okay with witches. And she, over five books, comes into her own. Um, it's almost like reading a series about Hermione, but the girl's name is Tiffany and there's no, like Harry or Ron. I mean, there kind of is, actually, but it's all about Tiffany. And, uh, every, every young woman who loves Harry Potter should read that series, in my opinion.

>> Haley Cobb: I love it.

>> Clare: Well, that's going in the show notes.

Would you support a young adult trip to Colombia and El Salvador with Spanish ministries

>> Haley Cobb: Okay, our next question comes from Andres. From St. Thomas the Apostle in the Diocese of Kansas. Would you support a young adult trip to Colombia and El Salvador with the Spanish ministries from both the Diocese of Kansas and West Missouri to explore the gospel in context?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Can you imagine if I said no? We'd have a revolt on our entire life. I mean, I think it sounds like so much fun. I'm so curious about it. Plus, you'd get to. We would get to eat Salvadorian food, like in El Salvador. That would be amazing. Um, I can't. I mean, as long as we're safe. I want us to be safe. Yeah, right, obviously. Um, and why would we not partner with our sister diocese to do those sorts of things also? Um, yeah, I'm all in. I'm, um, I mean, yes, I would love to do that. I would love to go walk the El Camino Real. I would love to, to take a trip to Iona. I would love to go to Israel. I would, you know, any. Yes. All the things. Bring on all the pilgrimages. Let's. All of it and not. Not just like to around the world. What about the gospel in the context of Santa Fe and the indigenous peoples of New Mexico, Navajo land, North Dakota.

>> Clare: Alaska, even here in Kansas City to examine redlining.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Yeah, all of it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

>> Clare: It. Oh, uh, wait, that was Karen. Karen, you're next.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Yeah.

What is your favorite Pokemon? I'm a very basic Pokemon person

And I again get a very important question from apparently a young adult in the diocese of Kansas. What is your favorite Pokemon?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Oh, Ah, it's a great question. I fear that this is a moment when my true basicness is revealed. I'm a very basic Pokemon person. I really am glad that Diane Bishop Bruce is not here, because I'm sure she would be like, why. Why are you being so basic, Amy? Like, there's this know she loves Pokemon. She plays Pokemon. Um, I really like Bulbasaur because he's sticking adorable. Like he's blue and green and he's got like a bulb on top of him. And, um, and I also really like Char. Charmander. Charmander. Mainly because Charmander looks like a dragon to me. And all dragons are amazing and cool. And so if that's as close as I'm going to get to a dragon in Pokemon, I'm in here for. But those are basic. There's probably better, in fact, if somebody wants to message me other Pokemon characters that meet those qualities, A, cute and B, resemble dragons, they should message me. So I can do. I'm happy to support those Pokemons.

What are your top three priorities heading into your episcopate

>> Clare: Next question actually comes from a staff member at a church in the diocese. Um, having gotten a rough overview of what's happening in the diocese currently, what are you tentatively planning to be your top three priorities at the start of your episcopate?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: That's a really great question. So the first, honestly, is caring for the clergy of the diocese. Um, as a bishop, they are my primary parishioners, and they are the feet on the ground, if you will, in the diocese. Our clergy work really hard. They're spread really thin. Um, and what I mean when I say that is they're are bearing the burden of the work in the diocese. And so I want to pour into them that to me is really, really important. Children in youth ministry is also a huge priority for me. You all have already heard me talk about why. I mean, how it's just a part of who I am. And also, I think we do a really disservice to our smallest congregations who want to welcome in families and don't really have the resources to be able to do that. So my hope is that we will bring in some folks who I consider to be expos in intergenerational worship and ministries to work with our smallest communities on how they can be welcoming and opening to families without also being intimidating for those families. So there's a wonderful woman named Sarah Bentley Allred. Some of you may know her. She has a new grant through lifelong Christian formation at Virginia Theological Seminary called Roots and Wings. And I'm hoping that we can benefit from her work and bring her into the diocese, maybe even have her consult with some of our community. So that's a huge priority for me. And I would say the third really is related to that in terms of congregational development. So again, how do we pour into our communities as many resources as possible so that they are empowered, encouraged, and confidence is, you know, their self confidence can grow so that they can feel. Not just feel, feel is not the right word, but so that they are ready to. For whatever it is that God. God's calling them to, whatever their next right thing might be. I hesitate to not speak about Hispanic ministries because I do feel like the burden of Hispanic ministry falls on two people, one in Kansas and one in West Missouri. And that's not fair to them. So I do hope that we're able. That is another priority that I want to name, um, out loud and publicly. It, uh, is a fast growing population in our midst and a vulnerable population. And so I hope that we will continue to grow our capacity to serve in their midst. Thank you.

What is your favorite godly play story

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: So you already addressed this slightly in your question about your favorite passage of scripture, but what is your experience with godly play? Um, and if you do have experience with godly play, what is your favorite godly play story?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: So I'm a godly play storyteller. Trained, Trained godly play storyteller. My plan after I was not elected bishop of West Missouri was to become a godly play trainer. I was. That's what I was going to do next. So I don't think I'm going to have time for that now, sadly.

>> The Reverend David Wilcox: We'll keep you busy.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's fine. Yeah, probably. Probably, um, project. Some project somewhere. Um, so I love godly play. I think it is. I wish it had a different name so that more adults would engage with it. I think people think, oh, it's a kid thing because it's called godly play. It's such a. Such an incredible way to enter into scripture. My favorite godly place story is not really a story. If you know godly play, you know that the desert stories involve a meditation on the Desert that's told before you tell any of the desert stories. And that is really my favorite godly play story, is the meditation in the desert. In fact, I find just the other day I said to somebody, well, you know, nobody goes into the desert unless they really have to. And somebody was like, that's not true for me. And, like, we had this fantastic conversation about it. So. So I, uh, just think that that is a wonderful way to enter into scripture and our own experience of God in our lives. That being said, uh, I also love the story of the pearl of great price. The very first time I ever saw that story being told in godly play, my friend Lois was telling the story, and I watched the whole story being told. And when she was done, I said, I have a question. She said, yes, yes. And I said, that story is not in the Bible. Where did that come from? And she said, it's in the Gospel of Matthew. I said, I have never heard that story in my life. That is not in the. That is not in the Bible. Been studying the Bible for my whole life, and I've never seen that before. And so, like, we went over to the Bible, she pulled it open. That story is like two sent. It's two verses in the Gospel of Matthew. And I said, well, that's not the story you just told. The story you just told is totally different. And it, for me, it was proof, if you need it, of how godly play just breaks Scripture open for us and invites us close to the holy. And then God will use it to come close to us and, uh, call us deeper into ministry with Christ. And that will. That story will stay with me forever because of that experience.

Do you see any opportunity to grow children's ministry offerings at a diocesan level

>> Haley Cobb: I think I'm up next with a question, and you touched on this a little bit when talking about, like, priorities for the diocese. But do you see any opportunity to grow children's ministry offerings at a diocesan level? And if so, what might be your vision specifically for children's ministry in that way? This is from a parent in the Diocese of West Missouri.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's such a great question, and it's such a reminder that our parents are hungry for support from the church that they love and to know that Jesus is with them in their experience of being at church. Absolutely. You know, when I began in youth ministry, uh, I will never forget the. One of the main things I was taught, which is that, yes, you are responsible for your oldest members of your youth group. Right. Your seniors, of course. Right. And you're not building youth ministry with your seniors. You're building youth ministry with the children that haven't even been born yet. Right. You're building relationships with parents and young adults and um, through the trust of those relationships, then those folks come into church, they stay in church, they begin to learn that they, um, have a role to play. That not just role to play, but that their ministries are valid and important and have authority within the community. And then, then their children become, then, then they begin to trust that their children have ministries within the, the congregation. You know, like. Right. Like it just, it just builds on itself. So, so that's why I talked about we have to go into communities that maybe don't have any families in their midst and help resource them, um, to feel comfortable and encouraged and empowered to welcome families in a way that again, doesn't like. You know, I just, I always feel having, having never had to bring my three children to church on my own, but watching my husband do that for years. I have a great amount of respect for any parent, parent who, who gets children clothed and to church. It's a huge deal. It's Sunday morning. Think about all the other places where those families can spend their time or Saturday night or Sunday evening. I, uh, hesitate to use the word easy. It is, I think that this, that it's worth. The value is knowing that you're not alone as a parent or as a child. And so we can teach congregations how to be communities of welcome and inclusion. And by empowering them in ministry, they then will empower children and families in their ministry. I think Sarah is doing an incredible job of this, um, in the work that she's doing. And so I, I want to be able to learn from them, learn from her. I want our communities to learn from not just her, but all these places that are doing this. And this can be, I was going to say this can be as simple as creating a worship service that is child centered. But I think it's an even smaller step than that.

I believe in feral children and I believe in allowing children at church

Um, this, I'm, I have a controversial. This is maybe my most controversial thing I'm going to say probably not, but maybe if this is the most controversial thing I have to say thanks be to God, which is I believe in feral children and I believe in feral children at church. Right. So, um, I. Right. That drives some people crazy. Right. Because feral children are feral. Right. They're like, they're loud, they want to be at the altar. They like, don't exhibit a lot of self control, they're messy. Um, they ask hard questions that we don't have the answers to. You know, like they're just a lot. Feral children are a lot. Um, and feral children grow into mature, spiritually deep adults, and that is who God is calling each of us to be. And so, uh, when an adult starts complaining to me about a feral child, my first clue is that that adult's inner child has been sublimated and that they're afraid, uh, to be. To allow that inner child some freedom. And so how do we give adults permission to also be feral in church? Right, right. To ask hard questions, to be willing to get messy, to come close to the altar. I mean, how many adults do I know won't go past the rail because they've been taught that the altar is for the priest and not for them? And come close. God wants to be so close to us. So to me, that's why children's ministry matters. Because it is by our ministry with children that we remember who and whose we are and that God wants to come so close to us, and we can come so close to God. Amen.

>> Clare: Uh, feel like I'm going to start crying because I say that all the time. All the time. Children, to me, especially if, if they have curiosity about going up on or, uh, going up to the altar, either before or after, sometimes even during the service. To me, that's holy. Kira, you know, and I say this almost every episode of the podcast. I mentioned the prayer that said after the imposition of water and before the anointing at, uh, baptism, where it says, give them inquiring and discerning hearts, courage to.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Well on the person.

>> Clare: Yeah. And to know and love your creation. Like, I'm not a tattoo person, but that would be something I would tattoo on my body because that's what I hope for every person. So I love that you said that and that.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Well, and I want to be clear. We have to have boundaries. I'm not saying we're just completely, you know, although I don't know. But I mean, boundaries, I think, do matter. The story that comes to mind again and again for me is of my own child. So our middle child every Sunday would come and give me the peace, and then he would say, can I stay up here? And so of course I was going to say yes. Right. Like, why would I not say yes to any child who asked to stay up there with me? And so one Sunday, he was. Was standing to my right, and I was celebrating the Eucharist, and he was spinning in a circle. He was just spinning around and around and around. It was so distracting to everyone. Right. And I was like, here I am. With my hands in the Iran's position. He's spinning next to me. I just turned my right hand upside down, um, grabbed him on the top of the head, turned him forward so he was facing forward and said, please stop. And I just whispered, you know, please stop it. And he went, he just had forgotten, you know, where he was. He, he was, where was. He was in the presence of the Holy right and just loving every minute of it. And so then he stopped. And then we finished with the Eucharist, and he went down and he came up with his dad to take communion. And I hadn't had a parent burst into tears talking about that years later, because that moment gave her permission with her own children, um, and allowing their, their curiosity and also recognizing that it's okay to set the boundary of, of who we are, where we are, when we are, if you will, if that makes, if that makes sense. So, yes, we need to have boundaries. And if anyone is curious about what it's like to be at the altar, we should bring them close, because this is part of discernment, isn't it? I mean, I thought everyone sitting in the congregation was imagining themselves behind the altar. I thought it's what everybody did. What? Right. Me a two right. Exactly. And it's that moment when you realize, like, that the person sitting next to you is thinking about, like, their grocery store list that you realize, no, this is a vocation and a call. Uh, so I want to nurture vocation and call in every person. And if baptism, if we really believe, which I think we do, that baptism is ministry. By our baptism, we are full ministers in the body of Christ, y' all. We've been baptizing infants for, for centuries. We got, we got a bunch of ministers in our church that are under the age of 30. Some of them just don't have a vocabulary for it yet, so they can teach us in other ways. True, True.

Is there a question that you've always wanted to be asked but never been asked

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Is there a question that you've always wanted to be asked but never been asked?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: I have sat with this question for a really long time because I feel like there's a right answer. Uh, so I, I, I don't know the answer to that question. It's, I, you know, my first response was like, well, that's the question I've been waiting to be asked. I don't know. Um, maybe, maybe One way I'm hearing that question is like, is there anything else that we haven't asked you that you want us to know? Sure, maybe. I don't know. Um, I suppose I would want anyone who's listening to know two things, that we are each one of us beloved and chosen by the one who made us. There's no that, that's the end of a sentence, period. And then I, I do hope people know that if what I have just said, that we are all chosen and beloved by God, brings up in them any sense of curiosity or wanting to know more that um, that there are people in their church who would love to talk with them more about it. And so, uh, nothing brings the clergy more joy or a youth minister or a children's minister, or a lay minister or your friend who's sitting next to you in the pew than to have permission to talk about God and so talk to one another about your experience of the holy. And God will use that to grow us, uh, in ways we can't imagine.

If Jesus is God and God is in heaven, how can Jesus be here

>> Clare: Oh, uh, that's so fantastic because our very last question comes to us from the youngest, youngest person that submitted a question. And I'm just gonna name it, he's one of mine. He says, bishop Amy if Jesus is God and God is God and God is in heaven, how can Jesus be God but here on earth?

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: It's such a beautiful question. It caused me to think of my friend Father Rob, uh, Father Rob Leacock. He's a chaplain at Episcopal Collegiate School. We worked in Little Rock. He's been my kids chaplain for years. But we're best friends, um, siblings in Christ and worked together for a long time. But he got asked a question, asked, ah, the chaplain, anything that was, was, um, is it possible for God to create a rock that even God can't lift? These are, they're just, they're fantastic questions, right? Because these questions are getting to the nature and the root of God and how we understand God and who we understand God to be. And the heart of these questions is how do we wrap our hearts and our minds around the mystery of the holy. Ah, which is what that question is to me. This is a question about out the Trinity, right? And the divinity and the humanity of Christ. If Jesus is God and God is God and God is in heaven, in other words, if the risen Christ is in heaven, that's how I hear that with our Creator, then how is the risen Christ also with us? And that is, that is a question about the mystery of the resurrection, of which we use a lot of really big words to try to explain that even adults themselves do not understand. And any adult who tells you they understand the mystery of the incarnation or the resurrection is selling you something. That's what I have to say about that. It's a quote from the Princess Bride. So, um. So I would say, uh, to George. George. That is a really big mystery. And I believe it to be true, all of it. That God. That Jesus is God. I believe that to be true. I believe that to be true because of the many miracles and stories that he tells us in scripture. And I believe that we do have an eternal home with our Creator who loves us, and that Jesus resides in that eternal home, along with the Holy Spirit, where they live and reign, one God, forever and ever. I believe that to also be true because I've had my own experiences of the holy being and eternal place, like in my own life of knowing that I'm close to that holiness. And I also believe that Jesus, the incarnate Christ, is the word of Christ living and dwelling among us. And that when Jesus was alive, we knew that in the living Christ. And now that we have a risen Christ, we know that through our capacity to continue to allow Christ to dwell in us and to be the hands and feet of Christ in the world. World. So all of that is, like, a lot of words to say. It is a great question, and there's no perfect answer. And it is a great mystery. And I am so grateful for the mystery of who God is in our midst, because for me, that mystery affirms the holiness of God.

>> Clare: M. Amen. Amen.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Mm.

>> Clare: Well, those are all of our questions. I'm sure we'll come up with more if we. If you gave us more time.

All Things Episcopal Podcast closes every episode with prayer

Um, Bishop Mo, we are prayer book people. Um, we are people of prayer in general, and we strive to close every episode with prayer. And I'm wondering if I can put you on the spot if you would close us in prayer for this episode.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Absolutely. Are we doing an extemporaneous prayer?

>> Clare: We can.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Okay. Or did you have one chosen?

>> Clare: Or we could go with collecks.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Whatever.

>> Clare: Whichever you want. You're the bishop. Remind me that you're the bishop.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: M. How about I do like this one? So this is the collect for guidance on page 100 in the book of Common Prayer. For those of you who are curious about how to find such prayers also just take a moment and settle ourselves. I, uh, like to take a big, deep breath, give thanks for the Holy Spirit's presence here with us now, for the many ways that God has been with us throughout our days. Remembering all of those who suffer, for those without shelter, for those who weep, celebrating with those who have great joy today, and offering peace amidst all the uncertainties of our lives, Almighty God, in you we live and move and have our being. We humbly pray you so to guide and govern us by your Holy Spirit. Then in all the cares and occupations of our life, we may not forget you, but may remember that we are ever walking in your sight through Jesus Christ our Lord.

>> Clare: Amen. Well, thank you, Bishop Mo.

>> Mother Karen Schlebach: Thank y' all so much.

>> Haley Cobb: This was so much fun. Thanks for being with us. Us.

>> Clare: Yeah. And hopefully you'll come back. All right, friends, until next time. Hey friends, thanks for listening. Please like and subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about All Things Episcopal on the dasas of West Missouri's communication pages, please visit DIO westmo.org podcasts backslash and in the Diocese of Kansas, please visit edokformation.WordPress.com All Things Episcopal Podcast All Things Episcopal Podcast is a production of the Diocese of West Missouri and the Diocese of Kansas in association with Resonant Media.