All things…Episcopal

All Things Episcopal discusses immigration and migration in this podcast

>> Clare: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church. This podcast was designed with young people in mind and as a space to learn more about the Christian faith with the Episcopal lens. So, in traditionally Episcopalian greeting fashion, the Lord be with you. Hey, friends. Welcome back to All Things Episcopal. Today we are talking about a very complex and nuanced topic that is impacting many people in the United States, especially politically and spiritually, and that is immigration and migration. As with some of our other more complex, nuanced, and even tender conversations, the thoughts and opinions expressed on the topic of immigration and migration are that of the speaker alone and not on behalf of the entire Episcopal Church. Although when it comes to discussion about specifics on policy, we will strive to make it clear what the Episcopal Church's stances are on immigration and migration. We'll also attach links to toolkits and resources and even resolutions from the Episcopal Church for further reading in the show. Notes because this topic is complex, nuanced, and tender, we ask that you take care of yourself as you listen and also know it's okay to skip this episode if this topic is just too tender for you.

Mother Sarah Shipman, Andres Barbano, and Dani Mortensen

Okay, on, um, with the show today, we have a full house on the podcast. I am joined by Mother Karen Schlebock once again and not one, but three guests on the podcast. Mother Sarah Shipman, Andres Barbano, and Dani Mortensen. Mother Sarah and Andres, welcome to All Things Episcopal. And Dani, welcome back to All Things Episcopal. Before we dive in, I'd, uh, like for Mother Sarah, Dani, and Andres to share a little bit about their journey with the Episcopal Church. How you all found yourself amongst what, um, I like to think of as a bunch of contrite misfits known as Episcopalians. And your interest and an unfun fact about yourself. No, that is not a typo. I really mean an unfun fact. So, Mother Sarah, would you be willing to share first, and then we'll have Dani and then Nandra M. Sure.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Thank you, Claire. My first experience was actually with the Anglican Church. Right after college, I went on a trip to England, where we toured cathedrals, minsters, and abbeys during the day and went to plays at night. So it was sort of a church and theater tour. And we ended up attending an evensong service at Canterbury Cathedral, which for a theater kid to be in a place like Canterbury Cathedral and see at the time what I thought of as the lights, the sets, the costumes, the props for a performance was just a really a transformational experience for me. And then a few years later, my husband and I decided that we needed to find a church together. And he grew up Roman Catholic, and I grew up Methodist, and the Episcopal Church seemed to be a place to start as sort of fitting both of us. And I had remembered this experience in England. And then the very first Episcopal church we went to, the priest was a female, and she was. Her, uh, sermon was all about Madeleine Lengle. And so I was hooked and have been a part of the Episcopal Church ever since. And that was probably 20 years ago. And, um, unfun fact. Gosh, all the facts about me are fun. I don't know something that is unfun. I. I geek out on real estate contracts, I guess, so, you know, Dracula, the whole thing. Dracula would not have happened but for a real estate contract in the book. So there you go.

>> Clare: I mean, I. I consider that an unfun fact. Real estate bores me to tears. What about you, Danny?

>> Dani Mortensen: Um, first of all, real estate's actually amazing, so I would argue that, uh, um, but I will, um. I will say that I. I actually met my, uh, my now wife, then girlfriend, obviously, four years ago, and she actually somehow convinced me to go to church, but she made it easy on me because it ended up being a Zoom. You know, it was Covid times, and so we. We could only do the Zoom virtual church at the time. I had unfortunately been a little, you know, hurt by the church, and so I was very hesitant to join a church named the Episcopal Church when I couldn't even pronounce the name. But surely enough, uh, everybody was amazing. And I really appreciated the fact that I was actually very much praying to God at that moment, asking God to guide me to a church where I could learn more about what it means to have that godly love. Um, you know, and so I was able to find Clark, and then he used. I believe he used her as a vessel to help me find a church. And I've stayed here so far. We want to make sure Clark gets her toaster oven. She says, uh, she's converted three people, so, you know, she's waiting on that toaster over, so I feel like I have to stick around. No, I'm just kidding. It's absolutely a lovely place. And everywhere that I've been for the Episcopal Church, and I've been to many states now with the Episcopal Church in every single place, you find love and you find, uh, a home. And so, yeah, that's how I've stuck around. Oh, and an unfun fact this is very unfun. I don't like ice cream.

>> Clare: That's straight up criminal. I'm just gonna say it. It's criminal. I know, but I think I'm kind.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Of getting there too, Dani. Like, I eat ice cream, and, like, I find myself, like, blowing on it, trying to get it to not be so cold, which doesn't make any sen. But it's like, it's. It's too cold.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: I don't know.

>> Dani Mortensen: And for me, I just. It's a little too sweet. And I know that's a little weird, but cookies. And I. I prefer raisin cookies because, anyways, yes, I don't like ice cream. I don't like sweet things. So I apologize, but everybody else gets to share more of it.

>> Clare: This is true. And for our listeners, I. I'm gonna tattle on Dani a little bit. Dani is my former intern at, uh, Grace and Holy Trinity, and as you've heard her speak on the podcast before one of her first youth group nights, we did a baking, like, design type of ordeal thing where the kids designed various decorations on cake. And Dani was nominated to be the taste tester. And I didn't know that she didn't like sweets at the time, so she endured a little bit of youth ministry. Baptism by fire. With a lot of sugar that night. Um, anyways, so, Andres, what about you? How did you find yourself in the Episcopal Church?

>> Andres Barbano: Yeah, so I actually grew up Roman, uh, Catholic, and it was just one of those things where I was forced to go to church. It wasn't necessarily, like, a thing that I wanted to do when I was little, so I never really found community in the Catholic Church. As I got older, I realized that no one was forcing me, so I just stopped going to church altogether. And then I met, uh, this lovely lady that I have next to me, Claire. Eventually, um, I ended up moving to Kansas City. And one day I just kind of said, like, hey, can we go to church? And, um, you know, that's basically how. How we started, I guess, our journey. Or at least my journey. Um, yeah, ish. But, yeah, it's kind of like a boring story. But, I mean, that's.

I am a vegetarian, borderline vegan. Which for our listeners is the complete opposite of myself

That's basically the fact behind it. An unfun fact about me. I don't know. Uh, I'm not sure. Can you tell me enough fun fact about me?

>> Clare: Well, I feel like that's unfair because I'm m. Your spouse.

>> Andres Barbano: Yes.

>> Dani Mortensen: Something unfun about you.

>> Andres Barbano: Say that again.

>> Dani Mortensen: It might become something mean if she shares something unfun about you.

>> Andres Barbano: Uh, here how about this? Like, I eat mostly meat. So, uh, most of the time I just have some sort of meat. Like, literally, I eat 95% of my diet. It's just me, just some sort of meat.

>> Clare: Which for our listeners is the complete opposite of myself. I am a vegetarian, borderline vegan.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Yep.

>> Clare: So when they say opposites attract, it really is a thing.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Yep.

>> Clare: Um, so, well, thank you. Thank you all for sharing your stories. And I'm gonna also tattle on Andres a little bit. So. October 7, 2020 23, Andres finally moved from the Roman Catholic Church and joined us heathens as Protestants officially and was confirmed in the Episcopal Church, which is the same day that, um, a very beloved friend of ours was married. Yesterday we ran from their wedding to confirmation in our wedding clothes, and the bishop was like, you guys are a little overdressed for this. Anyways, so as our listen, as, um, listeners know, this podcast is very much a podcast that seeks to educate through storytelling and sharing resources about the Christian faith through the Episcopal lens.

Both Danny and Andres share their arrival stories on immigration and refugees

And as we mentioned earlier, in recent weeks, there's been a lot of conversation around immigration and refugees within the United States in particular particularly. And that's been really scary for a lot of people. For some, this is because it means separation of families, loss of jobs if you work in the nonprofit sector or the government sector on, um, resettlement and hospitality for those newly immigrated to the states. And for others, it's general hopelessness because of how we're treating people, regardless of political affiliation or country of origin. And while others have different thoughts and feelings on the matter, both Danny and Andres, um, are immigrants to the United States and have different arrival stories, which impacts their views of policy surrounding immigration both within the church and civic society. Danny and Andres, if you would share with us a bit of yalls arrival stories and how that has impacted your life as young adults. Andres, if you wouldn't mind, um, we'll have you share first, and then we'll have Dani share her arrival story.

>> Andres Barbano: Yeah. Okay. So I was actually born in Colombia and I lived there until I was seven. At that time. Ah, at that point in my life, my mom actually decided to start a new life in Panama. She started her business there, and it was actually a successful importing export of art business. She eventually grew the business to have a national distribution. So life was actually pretty good for us in those years. Uh, while we were living in Panama, my mom actually met somebody online. This was actually in the era of MSN, uh, chats. Right. Like before, before match.com and all of Those things. Right. So he was actually a Cuban American and he had escaped Cuba's uh, Castro uh, regime in the 1980s, um, become a US citizen and living in the US and after several months of chatting he was, he was traveling back and forth between the US and Panama. They decided to get married, get serious, and they both began the legal process for us to come to the US in 2004 my mom sold her business in Panama and after I finished school we moved to, back to Colombia to uh, wait for our visas. That whole process took about a year and By January of 2006 I was 12 and we finally arrived to the US so we started because the Columbian school year runs from January to about November and I had just finished the sixth grade in Columbia. When I got to the US uh in January of 2006. It was actually the midpoint of the American school, uh, year, uh, which for listeners it actually runs from give or take, August to May. Right. The school board actually placed me directly into the seventh grade and there was some debate about like um, maybe having me repeat the sixth grade. But I had all as back in Colombia so that kind of convinced them otherwise. Still though, starting the seventh grade halfway through the year was actually pretty tough. I didn't know how to speak English, I didn't know anyone and I just kind of felt at home but sort of like out of place. About eight months after we arrived here, my stepdad was diagnosed with kidney cancer. He lost his job due to illness. Um, my mom had been studying English full time at local community college but she had to drop out and work as a ah, cashier at Walmart so she could pay the bills. Uh, we relied on food stamps and help from friends and family or friends thrift stores, um, for clothing. Um, I still remember finding new Florida souvenir shirts for about 25 cents each. I guess if you live in Florida, you're going any, you go to a thrift store, you're going to find a lot of them. And I remember like there were a few students that made a, made a, made a few comments about how nice it was to see a, ah, recently arrived immigrant wear them and uh, you know, and, and that I was so proud to wear my Florida shirts. Right. And they just didn't realize that that's all that I could afford. Um, so it's just an interesting story about me. Um, yeah, that's, that's how I arrived here.

>> Clare: Thank you for sharing. Yeah, thank you. Danny, what about you?

>> Dani Mortensen: First of all, again, Andres, thank you for sharing. It really means A lot to know a little bit more about you. So I, similar to him, actually headed out here to United states. I was 9, turning 10. And we did not know any English. We did not know anything other than we actually did not find out we were making the move until a day before. Um, and we, uh, we were very integrated in the school system in Mexico. And I had used straight A's, so I was used to being top, uh, of my class. And, uh, once we arrived here to United States, I obviously did not know any English. So, um, I was having to relearn a lot of things, um, in a way, and how the world functioned here, including how safe it is here versus where I used to live, where there was 300 people who all knew each other. So. So the world here was a lot scarier than I had ever even could fathom, really. But my mom wanted us to have a successful or as. As successful as possible of a transition to the United States. So she wanted, uh, us to only speak English at home for two years so that she could also learn it and write it. And it worked. It was great until we had to switch over to only speaking Spanish because my little brother didn't know how to speak Spanish. So. But it was definitely alienating at times, for sure. There was times where, as I'm learning, I was told to say things and got in trouble for them, you know, while I still couldn't understand what was being. What I was being told to say. And I think as a child, it really teaches you really quickly, um, how hurtful people could. Can really be, but also how a lot of it comes from ignorance in all parties, you know. And so. So yeah, I. I think that coming here, because I also came here, but it was illegally, so I am a DACA recipient at the moment. And it opened up a whole different world of understanding of. Of all the differences and all of the disadvantages people have due to that. I never in my life thought I would ever get a driver's license. So, uh, the first time I. There was an option for me to have a driver's license, we abstained from getting a driver's license for a whole year because we were so scared. That was a scam. Even though it was obvious, you know, it was. It was. It was legal, but just things like that that I just thought was impossible or even getting a job, a good legal job, getting health insurance and stuff like that. So that's just a little bit of the perspective that I guess it clicks in my mind now because of having HUD Come here in the way that I did.

>> Clare: Like you said. Dani to Andres, thank you so much for trusting us with your story. And it means a great deal to me and to our listeners as well. One of the things I love so much about our denomination is that we strive to honor the history of our baptismal covenant, which is to honor the dignity of every human being and to seek and serve Christ in all persons. Loving them as ourselves, welcoming the stranger is a tangible example of that. Um, and it's also part of the mission of the church, which is to reconcile all persons, to unity with God and each other in Christ. And we do this through means of prayer, worship and proclamation of the gospel, and promoting justice, peace and love.

Mother Sarah is the director of Episcopal Migration Ministries

Mother Sarah, I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about how you found yourself dedicated to law, the church, and more specifically how those two aspects of your, your life led you to advocating for immigrants and refugees in the usa.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: I can try. It's kind of a twisted, convoluted tale, but as I mentioned, like in the intro section, I was a theater kid who, which that is not necessarily what everybody's parents dream, that their kid is going to grow up and be a stage manager. But I did work professionally as a stage manager for a few years, but had always wanted to go to law school and so found myself sort of at a career crossroads, deciding I didn't want to keep working nights and weekends all the time doing theater. And it doesn't, it's not a well paying job in the middle of Kansas. So decided to go to law school and eventually through sort of my legal training, I found my way into state government. And while I was working in state government, I had an opportunity as a volunteer to do some work with anti human trafficking organizations in my community, which really opened my eyes to the ways that government and law and vulnerable populations intersect with one another and how we can use some of those things to better serve and support people. There are government programs that actually can provide support and services for all sorts of vulnerable populations. And so as I volunteered for that organization for a while doing anti human trafficking work, I ended up getting offered a position as an Assistant Attorney General representing those populations that the state government of Kansas served, whether it was, um, survivors of domestic violence or victims of crime. So I served sort of as the Assistant Attorney General overseeing those pop. Those vulnerable population programs. Programs. All of that got me into seminary and looking for a way to better connect my faith, my work in law, and my, my desire to serve people and doing homework for a seminary Paper. I saw a job opening at Episcopal Migration Ministries and thought, wow, I didn't know the church had anything like this. And it was overseeing a government funded grant program and working with, with ministries throughout the church that served newcomers and thought, well, this sounds like the perfect job for me. And uh, you know, here I am. And I, I took this job in 2022 and I, I do tell people all the time, it's the very best mix of all of the things that I do and have studied over the course of my varied career interests. I'm not going back to school again, I'll, I'll tell you that.

>> Clare: So Mother Sarah is being very humble right now in that she didn't say that she is the director unless I'm just having a hard of hearing moment. She is the director of Episcopal Migration Ministries. So one more lady in the pulpit with a collar, which is awesome, but also one more lady with director of part of her name, which is great too.

The Episcopal Migration Ministries was founded in 1880s

I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit more about why Episcopal Migration Ministries was founded and what your current day to day operations are, uh, looking like right now in light of the change of immigration and migration policies within the United States.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Sure. I want to make sure that I point out that we are recording this in March of 2025. Things in the immigration space change every day. So, and I haven't fully read the news today, so I may not be accurate about where we are in the immigration space, but I will tell you that since January, it's different every day. Episcopal Migration Ministries can trace our work back to port chaplaincies on both coasts in the late 1800s, where we had Episcopalians welcoming people who were coming to the United States in the late 1800s. And so that's where we like to say we got our start. But the work in earnest started under the Presiding Bishops Fund for World relief in the 1930s, where Episcopalians were active in supporting those people who were fleeing Nazi Europe. And so as they were coming into the United States, so the Episcopal Church was active there. And that's where we really started working with resettlement for several years. For about 50 years after the 90s, we did resettlement work ecumenically with other organizations, including Church World Service. And through that we helped resettle people fleeing, uh, Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees, we helped resettle Cubans during the Marriott Boat Lift, and all sorts of other displaced people across the world coming to the United states. In the 1980s, we were formally entered into a relationship with the US Department of State to serve as a Refugee resettlement agency, which means that we had a cooperative agreement with the United States, along with now nine other organizations who were in public, private partnership with the US to resettle refugees in cooperation with the United Nations. So we started doing that work in 1880s, and since then, we've resettled over 105,000 people into the US in partnership with the federal government. Last year, it was over 6,500 people that we resettled. And we were on track for this year to resettle closer to 7,500 people through the Episcopal Church. And we do that through a network of organizations all across the country who are the C3 organizations who provide direct services. We oversee their work on behalf of the government. So Inauguration Day happened, and the refugee resettlement program was suspended and all refugee arrivals to the US halted as of January 24th. Um, we, we and other organizations had people at the airports, on the tarmacs ready to come to the US that, that were unable to do so. So two weeks, I would say. I think it was February 20th. The State Department terminated all of the contracts with all of the refugee resettlement agencies. All 10 of us have those contracts. The State Department has terminated them. I will say that that is the subject of multiple lawsuits and litigation that I can't get much into. But let me just say that nothing about executive orders and decisions regarding funding right now are settled in the new Trump administration, whether it's foreign assistance or refugee resettlement or any of those programs. So we are in the process of trying to figure out how to serve those clients who had arrived prior to January 24th. We have programs that welcome them for their first 90 days, and then we have programs that kick in after 90 days to provide intensive case management services for particularly vulnerable people, whether it's single parents and children or medically fragile people. And we also have work programs and employment programs that we do. So we are meeting almost daily, trying to figure out how we can continue to serve all of those folks who have arrived. We also have shifted our focus on the. So that's our federal facing work. We also have church work where we serve congregations and diocese and communities who are doing all of this work. And so we also have started offering trainings for, um, vulnerable communities, such as family preparedness, how to get yourself ready in case there's a possibility of a deportation in your family. We have also been providing training on know your rights, what you can and can't do if an ICE agent approaches you and what you do and don't have to say. So we have been Working closely with congregations all across the church as they are trying to serve those in their communities. So that's sort of the multifaceted, um, area of work that EMM is doing. So our federal work is ending, but that is just making a bigger emphasis and more need for our congregational and community work. Because as people potentially have family members deported or they lose their status, whether it's temporary protected status or some other status, and can no longer work, then that means that they need more support from organizations like the Episcopal Church. That's a really short answer, but, uh, it seems long. But that really condensed everything that's going on into about three minutes.

>> Clare: Well, either way, short or long, the work that you're doing is so incredibly meaningful, you and your team, um, because we all know that we can't do this important work alone. We do it in community.

One of the concerns about the travel ban is who is stepping in

Which leads me to my next question. One of the concerns that many people have now about the change in policy is who is stepping in to fill the gaps for those with real need. You mentioned particularly vulnerable populations, such as, like, a single parent, households, those with special needs, on, like, medically. So what might we as Episcopalians do to better fill the gap and bridge the gap, but specifically as college and young adult students, because we have a lot of energy to put forth and we want to help. Yeah. So how might we support the work that you and so many others are doing right now?

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: That's a great question. And thinking about it from the viewpoint of, um, our young adults and college students really puts a different spin on it for me. So I really had to, to think about that. I think one of the things, first and foremost, I'll say that we need to continue being the church. And part of the thing that the church does is we welcome people, we invite them into community. We have ministries that, whether they are justice ministries or mercy ministries, all of those participation in both the justice aspect of ministry and also the mercy aspect of ministry are going to become so important over the next days, weeks, months, years, as we, um, sort of face the new reality. I don't want to say new, normal, um, because I don't think that this will ever be the way we're treating people should ever necessarily be considered normal. But I. So I think to the extent that you're involved in a parish that has a feeding ministry or a clothing ministry, anything you can do there is helpful. To the extent you're in a community that has refugee resettlement agencies doing this work, Episcopal Migration Ministries does not have any, um, partner organizations in Kansas or Missouri. But I know that Catholic Charities does, and I know that there are a couple of others. And all of those organizations are having to lay off staff and stop providing services. And it's services such as driving people to the doctor's office, because a lot of times our newcomers don't have their own vehicles and public transportation may not be great in their community. So those places where somebody could step in and volunteer for an afternoon to drive a family to the doctor is going to be incredibly important for them. I think also just being a good neighbor, offering to do yard work for those people that you see in your community who can't, who can't. Who can't do these kinds of things. We're finding a lot of people are afraid to go outside. We're finding a lot of people are afraid to go to the grocery store. We're finding a lot of people are nervous about what could happen as they go into public spaces, given their different levels of immigration status. And while I don't suggest you ever ask anybody what their status is, I think anytime you can offer to provide support to keep them from having to go someplace where they might not feel safe is going to be incredibly beneficial to them. So that's what I would say. I would also say thinking specifically about college students, we're coming up to summer. I don't know what's going to happen when college students leave to go back home. And there's been discussion of is there going to be another travel ban coming? What happens so ways that communities can think about keeping their students in the US Rather than sending them back overseas where they may not be able to come back six months from now. Um, so those are quick things I was able to think of specifically focusing on young people.

Mother Karen, you specifically work with college students, like in person

>> Clare: Mother Karen, I want to give you the opportunity to say something in response to that because you specifically work with college students, like in person. So I'm curious, I'm kind of putting you on the spot here. I'm curious if these are some conversations that have kind of happened, like kind of sidebar at the Canterbury Houses or. Um, you know, just. Yeah. Has that kind of popped up in some of the ministry work that you've been doing?

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I've actually been sort of surprised, I think, at, ah, how our college students, at least the ones that I have been working with, I'm sure it's not all college students or anything, but.

>> Clare: I.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Don'T think it has fully hit them yet what all is going on and what the impacts are going to be. You know, they. A couple of Weeks ago, um, on one campus, they were organizing and publicizing a protest because that campus was eliminating its non binary dorm. So one of the residence halls basically allowed it just didn't look at gender when making room assignments. And, and so everything was just kind of non binary in that dorm. And, and they announced, um, that they were not going to be able to offer that next year. And so students were protesting. And you know, I, like, I feel bad for the college students because they're doing what they, they're trying to stand up for what they think is right. Well, I mean, I, I believe what is right right along with them. Right. So that, so that was happening at one campus. Another campus was posting about how anything talking about diversity had been removed from their university website. You know, so they're starting to see some of this stuff. And uh, I don't know if they're seeing that. Like, it's all because of the federal government and decisions that are coming from that. Like, I don't know if they've made that connection yet. They're getting there. You know, like Columbia University, where the student with the green card was arrested. Like, I read that they lost $300 million in federal funds of the stuff that was going on on their campus. And I might not have that number exactly right, but I know it was hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds. And like, like, I totally get it why these public schools in Kansas are eliminating this stuff. Because like, if they lose hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds, like, they can't stay open and our, our students won't be able to go to school anymore. But like, that doesn't mean that we should just, just sit down and take it. Right? Like, that's not, that's not how, how this country is designed to work. And so, you know, I, you know, I do think it's. It's been less than two months since the current administration took office. And, and so as things are developing and trickling down to our own context, I, I'm interested to see how it plays out and what, what types of activism, um, our students are interested in getting involved in. I, I support the idea of call Congress. I'll push that as an option for people, but, you know, I don't know that I know what to do either. Like, I, I mean, I like what Sarah is sharing is like, you do the little thing, you do the local thing that you can do. You try to make up for the gap that is, uh, has been created. You know, that's sort of our role as Christians On a local level, but also. Or. And also, I think there's work that could be done to make change happen at a national, federal level as well.

>> Clare: Yeah, I completely agree with you and thank you for that response. I know I put you on the spot there. One of the things that I'm going to brag on Dani and Andres for a second, um, these two lovely human beings have done just that in various times. Like right at, ah, the height of the pandemic, when Andres and I, we were at a different parish, we noticed that the church that we belong to had a food pantry, and a lot of the families that were coming through were primarily Spanish speaking. And full disclosure, folks, I know very, very little Spanish in terms of, like, how I can speak it. I can understand it a lot, lot more than I can speak it. And I asked Andres, um, like, would he mind helping interpret for families in need so we could get them the resources? And he was like, say no more. Like, I'm. I'm gonna help. And so he's paying. He has paid it forward in that sense to help other families elevate a little bit of the burden that they're experiencing. And I know Danny has done the same in a variety of capacities, so. So I am m. Very, very grateful to know the two of you, that goodness is still very much alive and well.

Dani and Andres discuss immigration on the podcast

Switching gears slightly, I mean, I. I.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Just want to say, like, honestly, like, I, uh, I am amazed that Dani and Andres are even on this podcast right now. Like, I would be if I. I don't know, because I have never been in any situation like that. But I feel like if it was me right now, I would be afraid. I would be one of those people that was afraid to come out of my house. I would not be talking about my story at all. So, like.

>> Dani Mortensen: Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Um, kudos to you guys.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Yeah.

>> Dani Mortensen: If I may add, I think that at least I can't speak for Andres. But from my point of view, in my life, though, I do have the status that I do have, I am very privileged because I am able to speak on it at this moment with, uh, minimal repercussions at this moment. Right. I don't say that it's anybody's duty to speak on it, but I do say that if you feel called to, I think it's very important to share, because sharing, uh, you know, you really give a perspective, a face to a perspective, you know, And I've learned that from a very young age where I was told, well, I was the exception you know, I was the exception to the bad immigrants. And it's like I was talking to Claire earlier. It's just that I somehow fit the mold they want, want. You know, I worked really hard to get rid of my accent because I believed that that was the right thing. When you having an accent or not having an accent is not. There's nothing to it, you know, And I think that it's very important for people to. Like you said, Mother Karen, um, to really understand that it's no one's. It's no one's duty to speak on it. If they do, it is a big, big leap of faith on others, essentially, um, because I do have family members that, you know, could get affected and are being affected actively about this. So I appreciate you saying that.

>> Andres Barbano: Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that as well. And it's interesting. So what Danny mentioned actually kind of like, hits home for me as well. So, like, I came here, granted, when. When I came here, I had a visa. We actually came on a, uh, K visa, something like that. It's like a, uh, fiance visa. I'm actually a US Citizen, right. So I don't have any of the fears of, like, you know, being deported or anything like that. But one. One of the things that Danny mentioned was, like, being one of the good ones, Right. It's. It's interesting because I. I actually feel like I done all of the quote unquote, right things, right? So, like, after high school, I went to college, got a degree. Um, you know, I joined the army, became an army officer, served for a few years. So it's. It's interesting that she has received that sort of, like, comment, and I received that sort of comment as well. And granted, you know, we. We have different paths. Right. Uh, uh, and. And Danny, if I might ask, uh, what year do you come in?

>> Dani Mortensen: Uh, uh, 2005 and 6. Ish.

>> Andres Barbano: Okay. So give or take about the same time that I came here. Okay. Yeah. So, no, thank you for sharing that.

>> Clare: Immigrants make our country better, y'all. Just saying.

The Episcopal Church has been speaking about immigration and asylum since 1985

So, switching gears slightly in our last few minutes, I want to address, um, the Episcopal Church's stance, um, particularly, um, its policies around immigration and asylum. Uh, the Episcopal church starting in 1985. And mother Sarah, if you're more knowledgeable about this and your research than I am, please correct me. Um, starting in 1985, a general convention, it made one of its first resolutions, um, to call upon the US Congress to enact immigration legislation that recognizes the human realities of undocumented persons in this country. And that provides asylum for those fleeing political repression. Furthermore, in 18 at, uh, General Convention, it uh, reaffirmed its commitment to a resolution that was made in Biden to advocate for congressional consideration and implementation of comprehensive immigration reform which will allow millions of undocumented immigrants who have established roots in the United States and are often parents and spouses of US Citizens to have a realistic pathway to citizenship and to full social and economic integration in the United States States and be it further resolved, this is directly from General Convention folks, that we affirm comprehensive immigration reform to include keeping families together, respecting the United States Bill of Rights, honoring human and worker rights, and finally providing a pathway to citizenship. So while I name two resolutions here, it is certainly not an exhaustive list, but it gives you a small window into where the Episcopal Church stands on the topic of immigration in particular. And I'm sure that there's much more around refugee and asylum status. We just don't have the time today to address it.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): Well, and just as a reminder for those of you who aren't Episcopal Church nerds like me and Claire, the reason. So our General Convention is, is a governing representative body that meets every three years. And the reason we pass resolutions like this is because we actually have a public policy network that will go and lobby government on behalf of the church, but we have to pass a resolution stating what we believe for them to be able to do that. So m. That's why we have these statements.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Yeah. And Claire, I'll, I'll just jump in and say that over the last few weeks we at the Episcopal Church center have been working really hard to compile all of the immigration resources up the church, which includes all of our policy statements, all of our trainings, all of our documents in one easy to find toolkit which is just@episcopalchurch.org immigrationactiontoolkit and um, everything that you might possibly want, um, is as to where the church stands and the resources that we have available can be found there. Um, so I don't know if we'll have show notes that go after this. Um, but that, that would be a great thing to include in the show notes because we've, we've, it's taken us a long time to compile all that into one resource because we have been speaking about immigration since the 30s.

>> Clare: Mhm. We'll definitely put those in the show notes and share it widely.

Two Episcopalians share their thoughts on helping refugees from Afghanistan

So with that being said, man, I'm starting to lose my voice here. What, if anything, does it mean to you all as ah, fellow Episcopalians, to have Your church, denomination engage in this topic in this way, through conversation, through lobbying, through policy, all of that. Dani and Andres, I'm wondering if you can share your thoughts first, and then I'd love to hear from Mother Sarah and then Mother Karen. Dani, do you want to go first, or do you want Andres, um, to go first? Me.

>> Andres Barbano: All right. Um, so I actually had the opportunity to volunteer with a few refugees from Afghanistan after the. The fall of Afghanistan. Having been in the army and knowing the work that some of those translators and workers, Afghan workers, did for. On, um, on, um, behalf of the US and to help some of my buddies, right, that went in Afghanistan, I can definitely see the importance behind helping them. And this is not to be. To say, well, they're one of the good ones, right. It's more of a returning, uh, the favor. They translated and they did work on behalf of the US and some. Some of our soldiers. And it's only fair that once they need help, we should be there for them. And again, this. These are people that are coming in with needs and not necessarily having resources. Right? So I do definitely appreciate, uh, work that the church is doing.

>> Clare: Dani, what about you?

>> Dani Mortensen: I think that, um, really matters to what we preach day to day, and I think that it's actively putting the words of the Bible in action instead of using them to weaponize, but, you know, using it to elevate people to love, as Christ himself said we should. And I think that, that, that's. That's what it means to me. It means that I am a part of a church that. I mean, every church is flawed, you know, But I think that I'm a part of an organization that sees me as an individual and wants to help me. Ah. And help see other people as individuals, but not only see them, but to elevate them, you know, and so it. It. It truly means the world to me.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: I don't know that I could say it any better than Danny just did. I guess. You know, welcome and love are two of the most deeply held tenets of our faith. And I think that doing this work is the way that we show the face of God to others, and it's the way that we are acting as Jesus's hands and feet in the world today.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I mean, I think the only thing I would add is that, you know, like, God did not put these borders on our lands. You know, we put the borders there, and. And so, like, giving people different rights or different dignity or different treatment because they were born on one side of an arbitrary line versus another. Is just. Just completely ridiculous. And yeah, like, you know, the. This is what the church does, is respect the dignity of every human being. Regardless of where you were born or how you talk or what you look like or whatever.

Danny Andres says sometimes people assume he's not an immigrant

>> Clare: The thing that comes to mind is imago day as I'm hearing each of you talk, like each of us are image bearers of God. And no matter who you encounter, regardless of their status, regardless of their socioeconomic status, regardless of first language, any of it, they bear the image of God. And I think for each of us, we would do much better if we remembered that, especially when it comes to policy making, be it church or civic society. So because we are people who strive to love with all that we can, with all the means we can, I'm wondering if each of you, Danny Andres, Mother Sarah, Mother Karen, can name a time when you saw the Holy Spirit at work repairing the breach between resident and stranger so the stranger becomes a beloved neighbor.

>> Andres Barbano: So I am, um, actually reminded of seeing images of Cuban refugees arriving in Miami Beach. This was in the mid thousands. And how a whole bunch of people just got around them so they could actually reach dry soil. At the time, the U.S. government, uh, had a policy of, like, wet feet. Dry feet, I think, is what it was called. What if, if they were on dry land, they were safe? If their feet were wet or they were in the water, they could actually be sent back. Um, so I'm reminded of that it was just people walking by that just got together and said, hey, let's just protect these people until they make it to dry land. Um, so I see stuff like that, and I don't know, it's just people that live or are living the American dream, helping others live the American dream. Um, and we see it now. We see it with churches and people just helping each other, Whether it's a, uh, contribution to a donation to some sort of fund or. Or maybe just helping your neighbor.

>> Clare: Danny, what about you?

>> Dani Mortensen: I think I see it a lot. Um, I talk to people, and to a certain extent, they don't understand that I am very much as much of an immigrant as anybody could be. And there's a lot of assumptions of where I am in my life right now. And, uh, I like to clarify them because I really need people to understand that I'm very much still an immigrant. You know, English is my second language. I'm not perfect at it. I'm not perfect at anything, you know, um, and that I am, um, because of the process of me being here, there are situations where people will talk to me and say, you know, at least you, you've done things.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Right?

>> Dani Mortensen: Because they assume, because I speak English very fluently, that I've done things, quote, unquote. Right, right. Uh, a lot of the times people feel bold enough to say very negative things about immigrants in front of me because, you know, they assume, again, I am not an immigrant. And so again, you know, I, I, I tell them, well, actually I'm an immigrant. So those people that you were talking about, I am those people, you know, those people that you believe are taking advantage of things, you know, I act, could not, you know, and you can see, I don't know whether it's embarrassment or what it is. Who can tell, but you can see their views change because they've already characterized me as, as something else. Right. And so when I tell them I am the one thing that you actively are, are hating or spewing hate for, you know, they, they see, they see, I think, a different world, I guess. And, uh, I am more than open to, as long as we can have a civil conversation, to go more in depth about my perspective and their perspective. And I think it's really amazing, unfortunate to have the situation be what it is, but it's amazing to see people go from I hate this to I didn't understand it. Obviously, everybody's responsible for understanding things. Right? But then accepting that they didn't understand it and that they themselves spewed hate or they, they themselves spread hate around. Right. Uh, and then saying, I'm sorry, I think that that's where obviously we don't change overnight, but I think that's where I usually see that seeing people understand their mistakes and then get, not get, I, uh, guess information to, to understand, oh, okay, this is factually correct. That was not factually correct, or vice versa stuff.

>> Clare: I guess.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Yeah. What I think about is we, refugee resettlement is done in community. Right. These, uh, we're resettling people into a community and they are becoming a part of that community. Over the last year, we, because of housing shortages across the United States, we weren't able to always ways resettle folks into the communities where we normally had traditional community partners. And so we spent a lot of time picking up the phone, cold, calling Episcopal churches all across the country and saying, hey, we have a family, family that needs to be resettled. There's some people close to your community that might have connections to them. We're not real sure, but they have indicated that this is a place where they might like to go. And every time the Episcopal Church said yes. They didn't ask where they were from, they didn't ask who it was. They said, let me make some phone calls, let me get a group together and yes, we will help bring them into our community and make them a part of our, our community. And they always said yes. It was terrifying to call, but they always said yes.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): I have a couple of examples that come to mind. One of them is that I've done some, I've been involved in some church wide stuff, particularly the Episcopal Youth event. And they try really hard to be welcoming and inclusive, um, mostly of Spanish speakers and making their services bilingual and including music that will be comfortable and familiar to both English speakers and Spanish speakers. Um, and seeing the youth like, you know, these white kids from Kansas who learned Spanish in high school and just really embrace, um, that environment and loving the Spanish songs more than the English songs and just being really open to that is really beautiful. And then I think the other one that comes to mind is just more locally that we had a, ah, student who moved here from Columbia, right. And who came to camp this last summer. And it was a little bit. I mean he spoke some English but wasn't 100% comfortable with English yet. And on the last night of camp he was like teaching all of the other campers how to do these amazing dances and he was swinging the girls around and just being a real. I don't, I don't know what stereotypical guy term I would use to describe it, but everybody wanted to dance with him that night because he was just having a blast and they were all enjoying it too. And it was just fun to see that. And, and hopefully he felt welcomed and included and um, even though it was a tough week, I'm sure. So those are the two examples that come to mind for me.

>> Clare: I love hearing all of these stories, um, because that's the point. To love without any boundary, to care and to, to do the work that we can do with the means that we can, with the grace that we have been given. So we have come to the end of our time together. Dani and Andres, thank you so, so, so very much for trusting us with your stories. Mother Sarah, thank you so much for Shar. Well, as the work that you're doing at Episcopal Migration Ministries, it is so important, so important. And uh, yeah, this is our time.

All Things Episcopal Podcast closes with prayer for immigrants and migrants

I'm curious, I'm kind of going off script here. I'm curious. Would anyone like to close this out in prayer? Is anyone feeling moved to do that? I, I can do it if you want. I don't know how eloquent it's going to be. The Lord be with you.

>> Mother Karen (The Reverend Karen Schlebach): And also with you.

>> Clare: And Holy God, we give you thanks for this time together of sharing stories, for elevating experiences of immigrants and migrants. Help us to be ever mindful of those around us. Help us to remember that each and every person that we encounter bears the image of you. Help us to give us the grace and the will to continue to do the work that you have given us to do. All this we ask in your son's name.

>> Mother Sarah Shipman: Amen.

>> Clare: Be well. Friends. Hey friends, thanks for listening. Please like and subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about All Things Episcopal on the Diocese of West Missouri's communication pages, please visit DIO westmo.org backslash podcasts backslash and in the Diocese of Kansas, please visit E d o k formation.WordPress.com backslash all things episcopal Podcast All Things Episcopal Podcast is a production of of the Diocese of West Missouri and the Diocese of Kansas in association with Resnet Media.